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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host and we have an

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interesting show for you tonight there's

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a gentleman named nathan he's coming on

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and you know uh i only have his first

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name so it's kind of like you know

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there's madonna cher

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uh prince people like that you know so

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maybe it's just nathan you know i'll

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talk to him a little bit about that but

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anyway uh last

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uh

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i want to say a shout out to aaron who

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uh found me somehow found me at the uh

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pine bush

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uh conference that i was at this end

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fair that i was at last weekend that was

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a lot of fun

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and uh so

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uh but you know i made the mistake i

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didn't wear a t-shirt or anything like

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that so

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only nathan i mean aaron found me so

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anyway

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uh

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about this time of year and i i

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recommend going it's interesting they

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have some good speakers there i was

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actually one of the speakers at the last

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minute type of thing and that was a lot

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of fun and one of the things i i brought

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in the topic there was when

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the people a lot of people that listened

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to the show

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i'm saying a lot of people not everyone

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but was because you had some type of an

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encounter and a while back i

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i did this little

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shout out to people that listen to the

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show

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who have had an encounter please if

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you'd like

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and it's an interesting one

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please email me at martinet podcast

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ufo.com and i encourage you to do that

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again we had some great people uh that

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have

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contacted me with some really

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interesting sightings so that was part

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of the talk i did and it went really

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well people really loved it so

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i encourage you if you had some kind of

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incredible ufo encounter please do

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contact me and i will talk to you on the

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phone first

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and we'll go from there so this week's

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blog is called a ufo abduction in japan

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and by charles lear his book is coming

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out

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on next week with philip mantle uh

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talking about his book and how we put

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that together

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and it should be another a great show

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that same time next week and i think

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that is going to do it i can't think of

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anything else other than i want to thank

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everyone else out there that helps out

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with this show i really do appreciate

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your support anyone can do that over at

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podcastufo.com

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and you'll see support the show and for

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two dollars or more a month you can help

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out and i do appreciate every single

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listener so here comes our guest nathan

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how are you nathan welcome good martin

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good to see you good to see you too

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so we have to address just get this out

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of the way

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um

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nathan it's just nathan and i asked your

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last name and a lot of times i've turned

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many people down but i've been told this

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guy's really good get him on the show so

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here you are uh but is is it uh it's

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it's a delicate situation at work or

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something like that

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uh it is uh you know you did mention

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prince and madonna i think today is

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prince's birthday so if i'm in that

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company oh there it is

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i'll be

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but

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you know it's an interesting topic of

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you know discussion i've thought about

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it i've been um

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on the fence for a while as far as

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whether kind of come fully out and give

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my last name i've got a lot of

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information about me that's available so

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if someone really wants to know who i am

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it's probably not that hard to find that

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out

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um i think i i kind of like to make it a

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little bit hard for people to find

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just because it's

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in my experience with online communities

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it's you know once you kind of put it

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out there you can't get it back so uh

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for now i'm gonna hold on to it and see

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how that goes but uh

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i do think it's uh

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you know it takes a lot of courage you

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know to come forward and put your name

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out there particularly those that you

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know are out there in the world when

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corporate world and have to kind of

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navigate uh different client

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relationships and those kinds of things

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to be known as a ufo person you know

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that can be interesting but as you

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pointed out before we got on the show

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more often than not people have a story

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and i think that that

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in a way gives them permission to open

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up to you and i i think you probably

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found that to be true in your own

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experience that once you

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you know so sort of say and make room

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for the fact that you're into ufos you

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get all kinds of interesting stories uh

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not just about ufos but about uh the

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paranormal and other strange things that

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happen to people so uh that could be a

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really good argument for me to just say

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you know what this is my thing and

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you've got a problem with it let's talk

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about it yeah yeah yeah you know i i did

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have a situation happen and i think

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um you know i i had a an ex an extremely

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good job that would that

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basically ended and someone called me

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later and i've never that's never

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happened to me before

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um i'm in the antiques and fine arts and

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and i'm pretty sure

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it's because i had this show on ufos you

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know and

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because i was uh some

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fellow worker

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called me like three or four months

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after and he said

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just a little

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caution here you know perhaps you ought

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to watch what you do in your private

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life and i don't have any skeletons in

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the closet other than ufos

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so

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would be and um

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you know he didn't say that's why i lost

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my job

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but anyway oh you know what i forgot to

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do is real quickly i wanted to show that

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i was i was at uh also stopped by bill

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who's the producer of kgra radios

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i was at his house uh the other day when

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i was at pinebush and ta-da here's

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bill's studio right here that's a

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command center that's the command center

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right there yeah and you can see there's

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a drum set in the back and all that

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so amazing yeah

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yeah uh so i think

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today if that happened

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i do believe that there would be much

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less of a chance

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that

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i would

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you know be terminated or whatever it

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because of that type of situation

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because i think the stigma is uh i don't

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know did you watch that uap hearing any

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part of it i did yes so you heard the

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word stigma many times

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reducing the stigma for the pilots and i

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think in general that that is going to

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happen

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right and

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and i

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you know i i welcome that i think it's a

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great thing completely agree and i think

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we are entering a new time and uh

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the fact that we can talk about it in

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those places where we haven't talked

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about it for quite a long time and the

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fact that so many people within our

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government and uh

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you know not only in the government but

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in popular culture are talking about it

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so it's it's not like this is just a

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crazy thing to to be interested in a lot

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of people are interested in this

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so you know i think that that is a it's

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a great point um

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i'm hoping that more more folks feel the

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courage to step forward and you know

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champion this subject where they can and

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so i've tried to do that through the

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places that i've found myself through

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the shows that i'm involved with and

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through social media

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to try to make it a more comfortable

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place to have this conversation

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let's hear a little bit about your

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background and what got you interested

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in this topic sure yeah so i've been

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thinking about i guess you could say

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non-human intelligence

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my whole life

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i grew up in the south i was a

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preacher's kid

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and so

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it wasn't uncommon for me to be

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thinking about these sort of ultimate

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questions

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uh every day of the week for you know my

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entire young adult life and childhood

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you know so

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um

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you know obviously engaging that through

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the lens of the christian tradition my

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father was a christian minister

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so you know we kind of

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talked about and adopted the language of

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christianity

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and that was something that obviously

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became very important to me

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as i got older and when i went off to uh

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to college and eventually graduated i

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decided to

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go to seminary i was going to pursue a

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career in ministry

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and i finished that degree i have a

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seminary degree but uh as i was kind of

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completing the degree i basically came

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to realization that

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that wasn't something for me that uh i

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no longer felt the same conviction

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of those beliefs that i did when i was

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younger and uh and decided to kind of

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leave that that world and belief system

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behind

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uh that said

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you know for me the

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sort of pursuit of religion the analysis

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of our belief systems

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those kinds of uh you know sort of

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teachings and trainings have helped me

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to look at this particular topic

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from an interesting perspective i've

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never had a phenomenal experience i've

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never had a ufo sighting i've never had

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anything particularly paranormal happen

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to me

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i've had some pretty vivid dreams that

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have impacted me uh but you know a lot

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of folks have dreams and so i try not to

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you know place too much importance on

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that although i do find it interesting

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that uh many people have

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really incredible impactful dreams that

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often change the course of their lives

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and that's something that's uh

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you know i think people might find to be

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a little bit strange in a world where we

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tend to try to make decisions based on

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you know kind of logic and reason uh to

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to base your decisions on something that

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happens to you in a dream is uh you know

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it seems a little bit weird although i

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think it's probably more common than not

282
00:10:20,069 --> 00:10:17,680
so

283
00:10:22,069 --> 00:10:20,079
that has been my experience with this

284
00:10:25,430 --> 00:10:22,079
topic kind of broadly i've always been

285
00:10:27,509 --> 00:10:25,440
interested in uh ufos science fiction

286
00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:27,519
i'm a kid of the 80s grew up with star

287
00:10:30,550 --> 00:10:29,360
trek watching the next generation with

288
00:10:32,150 --> 00:10:30,560
my family

289
00:10:34,389 --> 00:10:32,160
absolutely loved everything about it

290
00:10:37,030 --> 00:10:34,399
loved star wars i remember popping in

291
00:10:39,030 --> 00:10:37,040
the vhs tape and you know watching those

292
00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:39,040
star wars movies so many times we wore

293
00:10:43,030 --> 00:10:40,399
the tape out

294
00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:43,040
so it's just a part of you know my my

295
00:10:46,870 --> 00:10:45,360
interest in in kind of our culture and

296
00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:46,880
and you know the broader things that are

297
00:10:52,630 --> 00:10:50,160
happening with technology and uh in the

298
00:10:54,630 --> 00:10:52,640
late 20th and 21st century

299
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:54,640
wow wow interesting

300
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:55,680
you know the

301
00:11:02,069 --> 00:10:58,800
uh it's funny there's uh a gentleman he

302
00:11:04,069 --> 00:11:02,079
is a friend paul eno he has uh paul and

303
00:11:06,230 --> 00:11:04,079
benino they have the radio station he

304
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:06,240
went he almost became

305
00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:07,760
he uh

306
00:11:11,509 --> 00:11:09,440
i'm trying to remember what it was a

307
00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:11,519
reverend i think he went

308
00:11:16,389 --> 00:11:13,120
you know he he went all the way through

309
00:11:18,389 --> 00:11:16,399
the school and he changed his mind too

310
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:18,399
and i think it has helped him he has

311
00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:21,120
mentioned that it helps him you know

312
00:11:26,069 --> 00:11:23,600
look at these things and i you you made

313
00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:26,079
a very good point and i'm glad you you

314
00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:27,760
said what you did

315
00:11:31,269 --> 00:11:29,600
and that is you still have an interest

316
00:11:32,630 --> 00:11:31,279
in this even though nothing has happened

317
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:32,640
to you

318
00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:34,800
and because a lot of people seem like

319
00:11:38,230 --> 00:11:36,959
they have to embellish their

320
00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:38,240
past

321
00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:39,279
to

322
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:41,680
become more significant that are

323
00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:44,560
you know that are out there right uh you

324
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:46,160
know and there's a couple cases i could

325
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:47,519
i could tell you about

326
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:48,640
that

327
00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:50,399
all of a sudden they have a sighting

328
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:51,920
when they never did before that type of

329
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:54,480
thing right um and it's it's great you

330
00:11:58,949 --> 00:11:56,240
know stanton friedman never had a

331
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:58,959
sighting and you know he's one of the

332
00:12:02,629 --> 00:12:00,000
greatest

333
00:12:04,389 --> 00:12:02,639
uh in our in our lifetime or in our time

334
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:04,399
i think of people that have looked into

335
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:07,360
this topic and so i i think that's

336
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:11,440
that's a great thing yeah and uh so what

337
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:14,160
are some of the ways that your training

338
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:15,600
have helped you is a lot of it the

339
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:16,959
belief system

340
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:17,839
is there

341
00:12:21,990 --> 00:12:19,519
something involved in that

342
00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:22,000
yes so i'll start back kind of with uh

343
00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:24,000
the perspective of being a young person

344
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:27,279
growing up watching a minister uh you

345
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:29,839
know go about the business of ministry i

346
00:12:33,990 --> 00:12:31,200
think that's really where i kind of

347
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:34,000
caught this uh analytical perspective

348
00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:36,079
when it comes to belief systems so you

349
00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:38,480
know kind of seeing my dad

350
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:39,760
go through the

351
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:40,800
the kind of

352
00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:43,600
steps of managing a congregation of of

353
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:46,160
uh taking texts and and writing and

354
00:12:49,990 --> 00:12:48,240
preaching sermons and and pouring over

355
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:50,000
these stories that mean a lot to a

356
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:52,480
particular community but giving those

357
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:54,320
stories new meaning you know it really

358
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:55,760
showed me that

359
00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:57,760
uh you you can take

360
00:13:02,069 --> 00:12:59,760
almost any subject and you can you can

361
00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:02,079
really imbue it with a lot of meaning

362
00:13:06,389 --> 00:13:04,560
provided that you do it in certain ways

363
00:13:08,389 --> 00:13:06,399
and so

364
00:13:10,069 --> 00:13:08,399
i think i

365
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:10,079
kind of caught that a little bit through

366
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:11,360
osmosis

367
00:13:15,990 --> 00:13:13,360
just sort of observing what was going on

368
00:13:17,350 --> 00:13:16,000
and then as i got older and decided you

369
00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:17,360
know i really want to

370
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:18,800
learn more about

371
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:20,720
this religion thing i really want to

372
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:22,800
understand if i can just understand it

373
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:23,839
more

374
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,320
then i will somehow have a i will come

375
00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:28,320
to this in a place of of great

376
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:30,639
realization i'll be able to change my

377
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:33,200
life in really powerful ways you know so

378
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:35,440
that that becomes a motivating factor

379
00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:38,160
for me to go into seminary so in

380
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:40,560
seminary what really kind of changed for

381
00:13:46,470 --> 00:13:43,760
me from uh going from a real believer to

382
00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:46,480
someone that was much more skeptical

383
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:48,399
was learning a lot about the the

384
00:13:53,430 --> 00:13:51,279
theologies of christianity over time

385
00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:53,440
uh and so one thing that you'll learn if

386
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:56,240
you do any kind of study of of religion

387
00:14:00,150 --> 00:13:57,920
is that

388
00:14:02,790 --> 00:14:00,160
over over time century by century there

389
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:02,800
are there are individuals who will take

390
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:04,959
religious texts and experience and they

391
00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:07,120
will basically kind of

392
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:09,440
analyze that and repackage it into a

393
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:10,480
system

394
00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:13,199
that makes sense for those who live in

395
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:14,720
in the time that they find themselves

396
00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:16,399
and this is the task of the of the

397
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:18,320
theologian they're kind of a in a way

398
00:14:21,030 --> 00:14:20,000
they're kind of a scientist right they

399
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:21,040
take the

400
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:23,279
the data the hard facts that exist in

401
00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:26,320
the religious tradition yet they uh work

402
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:28,399
with that they manipulate it they study

403
00:14:33,269 --> 00:14:30,480
it and then they they kind of create a

404
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,279
new thing with it that that is a system

405
00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:35,440
that people can learn and use that gives

406
00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:36,160
them

407
00:14:41,189 --> 00:14:38,560
meaning and structure to their lives so

408
00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:41,199
when i learned that there were

409
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:43,839
many different theological perspectives

410
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:46,240
that existed throughout history

411
00:14:51,269 --> 00:14:48,959
uh that there really wasn't one set in

412
00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:51,279
stone way to look at the text

413
00:14:55,350 --> 00:14:53,600
it's at that point where i decided that

414
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:55,360
you know this wasn't something that i

415
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:57,760
could really firmly believe in that it

416
00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:00,240
was so it was so malleable

417
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:02,800
that it just kind of lost it it's it's

418
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:05,120
sort of a solid meeting

419
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:06,959
to me um

420
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,120
it's not that i had any kind of disdain

421
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:11,279
for it though so i did leave that behind

422
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:12,639
but i still

423
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:13,920
really uh

424
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:16,399
appreciate those people who give it who

425
00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:18,639
find that it does give them meaning that

426
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:19,760
that it does

427
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,600
you know give them purpose i really

428
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:23,279
think that that that's amazing and i

429
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:25,519
think we all basically have to

430
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:27,680
find that thing in our lives that helps

431
00:15:31,749 --> 00:15:28,880
us to

432
00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:31,759
structure our our day-to-day you know we

433
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:34,480
have a lot of different beliefs um i

434
00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:36,160
know you've interviewed dr hannah

435
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:38,320
pasulka and she's talked a lot about

436
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:41,040
belief and religion but really if you

437
00:15:45,269 --> 00:15:43,360
think about the way that we all go about

438
00:15:46,150 --> 00:15:45,279
our day-to-day lives we all carry with

439
00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:46,160
us

440
00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:48,639
a set of beliefs that that structure and

441
00:15:52,069 --> 00:15:49,920
and define

442
00:15:55,749 --> 00:15:52,079
not only who we are but how we engage

443
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:55,759
with the world and it's that very same

444
00:16:00,949 --> 00:15:58,320
sort of concept that that you can take

445
00:16:02,870 --> 00:16:00,959
and apply to the study of ufos and the

446
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:02,880
phenomenon you can look at

447
00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:05,600
what people are are experiencing and

448
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:07,120
people are reading about in the

449
00:16:10,389 --> 00:16:08,800
literature

450
00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:10,399
you can you can see how they're taking

451
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:11,920
that information

452
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:14,399
and they're ordering it into a narrative

453
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:16,639
and that narrative you know can can take

454
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:18,639
the shape of many different kinds of

455
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:20,320
hypotheses you know so you can have

456
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:21,600
people who

457
00:16:25,749 --> 00:16:23,120
really land firmly on the

458
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:25,759
extraterrestrial hypothesis or

459
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:28,240
interdimensional or time travel or

460
00:16:31,990 --> 00:16:30,399
there's so many different possibilities

461
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:32,000
ultimately at the end of the day we have

462
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:33,120
to sort of

463
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:34,800
each wrestle with

464
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:36,720
this set of information

465
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:39,199
and and decide this is the story that

466
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:41,199
makes the most sense for me

467
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:42,959
and then what am i going to do with it

468
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:44,720
and so you know for me looking at this

469
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:46,720
topic because i haven't had an

470
00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:48,480
experience and i really appreciate you

471
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:50,720
you know kind of validating that uh you

472
00:16:55,189 --> 00:16:53,199
know for me it's not it's not what i

473
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:55,199
can can point to and say you know there

474
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:57,600
was a ufo that i saw or there was an

475
00:17:01,590 --> 00:17:00,000
experience that i had of an abduction or

476
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:01,600
whatever it is

477
00:17:04,870 --> 00:17:03,600
instead i can i can study the way in

478
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:04,880
which

479
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:07,919
these ideas impact people and so i've

480
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:10,480
always really been a kind of a student

481
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:13,600
and a lover of of people uh and that

482
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:15,120
probably again comes from my my

483
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:16,720
childhood growing up in a church and

484
00:17:20,309 --> 00:17:18,640
being surrounded by

485
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:20,319
people from so many different

486
00:17:24,789 --> 00:17:21,600
generations

487
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:24,799
uh young old and in between who became

488
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:26,880
kind of an extended family

489
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:29,440
anyone who's grown up in that kind of

490
00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:31,120
culture and i know in america that's

491
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:32,799
probably a lot of people

492
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:34,080
who have at least some kind of

493
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:35,440
experience with that

494
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:37,280
they know that uh

495
00:17:41,350 --> 00:17:39,200
you know that that really takes on a

496
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:41,360
really deep meaning for the way in which

497
00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:43,440
we understand who we are and the way in

498
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:46,160
which we go about what we do so in much

499
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:47,600
the same way you can look at ufo

500
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:49,039
communities you can look at how we

501
00:17:53,909 --> 00:17:51,440
interact with one another um the people

502
00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:53,919
that we look to as kind of the arbiters

503
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:55,760
of of information you know we kind of

504
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:57,440
have like a

505
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:58,799
you know you're you'd be very familiar

506
00:18:02,230 --> 00:18:00,080
with this martin kind of a priestly

507
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:02,240
class if you will of ufo experts you

508
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:03,919
know we kind of we go back to them over

509
00:18:07,510 --> 00:18:05,760
and over and say what are they what do

510
00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:07,520
they know and how how do they know it

511
00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:09,520
and i'm going to record that information

512
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:12,160
in a book basically and and and and

513
00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:14,480
chronicle it and if i if i collect it

514
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,480
all in the right way and apply the right

515
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:18,240
analysis to it then i'm going to find

516
00:18:22,390 --> 00:18:20,240
out the answer this is exactly the same

517
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:22,400
thing that happens in religious belief

518
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:24,000
systems so that there's a really strong

519
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:26,320
corollary there in my opinion

520
00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:29,200
right right yeah that all makes so much

521
00:18:32,789 --> 00:18:30,400
sense to me

522
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:32,799
and you know there's

523
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,640
there's a difference

524
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:36,320
in my opinion

525
00:18:42,789 --> 00:18:39,120
that when someone says do you believe in

526
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:42,799
ufos that's not really the question

527
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:44,240
the question is

528
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:46,880
what do you think ufos are because ufos

529
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:48,320
are definitely here there's so many

530
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:49,840
unidentified

531
00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:51,280
things that people have never been able

532
00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:54,960
to explain so you did you went through

533
00:18:59,909 --> 00:18:58,080
the different things that they might be

534
00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:59,919
um one of the things that i add to that

535
00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:01,200
list myself

536
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:03,360
is something that we may not understand

537
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:05,440
right you know that's another thing they

538
00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:06,640
they could be

539
00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:08,960
um and or all

540
00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:10,960
or all of the above you know they could

541
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:13,679
be a mixture of all the above if you

542
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:14,640
look at

543
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:16,559
the sightings you know i

544
00:19:21,270 --> 00:19:19,520
if you just i i was at that pine bush

545
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:21,280
that i was at this weekend

546
00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:23,440
uh cheryl costa did this

547
00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:26,080
she does this great work on

548
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:28,000
statistics and it might be boring for a

549
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:30,000
lot of people i like statistics i'd like

550
00:19:33,669 --> 00:19:31,280
to look at them

551
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:33,679
and basically she said

552
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:35,600
if we go down to

553
00:19:39,029 --> 00:19:37,120
one percent

554
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:39,039
uh this was just the state of new york

555
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:40,720
if we just say that

556
00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:43,280
uh first of all like 30

557
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:44,320
30

558
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:45,919
percent of them have not been

559
00:19:49,270 --> 00:19:47,679
explainable all the sightings that's

560
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:49,280
kind of high

561
00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:50,720
for the most part

562
00:19:54,549 --> 00:19:52,640
a lot of times it's like 10 or you know

563
00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:54,559
12 or something like that so if it goes

564
00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:57,919
down she said even if it goes down to

565
00:20:00,549 --> 00:19:59,120
um

566
00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:00,559
one percent

567
00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:01,919
per year

568
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:03,200
that's still

569
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:06,960
sightings a month in just the state of

570
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:08,960
new york right now the state of new york

571
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:10,159
is big

572
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:12,880
but you take that and multiply it

573
00:20:15,909 --> 00:20:14,400
you know land wise all the way around

574
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:15,919
the world never mind the ocean which

575
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:18,880
covers 73 of the earth you know you

576
00:20:22,230 --> 00:20:21,200
wonder how many

577
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:22,240
and that

578
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:24,720
also something not taken in

579
00:20:28,149 --> 00:20:26,080
to uh

580
00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:28,159
in fact and factoring this in

581
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:30,400
is that's all the sightings that are

582
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:32,000
reported

583
00:20:36,149 --> 00:20:34,400
um you know a lot of times when i've

584
00:20:37,510 --> 00:20:36,159
been in different conferences and things

585
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:37,520
like that

586
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:39,280
that one of the questions that comes up

587
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:41,360
okay how many people out here have had a

588
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:43,360
ufo sighting and when you're going to a

589
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:44,880
ufo conference it's going to be pretty

590
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:48,000
heavy a lot of them yes and so a lot of

591
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:50,480
hands go up in the room and then okay

592
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:52,799
how many people here reported your ufo

593
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:54,000
sighting

594
00:20:58,470 --> 00:20:56,799
and there are just a few hands go up and

595
00:21:02,310 --> 00:20:58,480
i'm guilty of that i had a sighting in

596
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:02,320
2007. i didn't report it at the time i

597
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:03,919
didn't know how to report it i had no

598
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:06,320
idea there was anything online right i i

599
00:21:09,029 --> 00:21:07,840
called the police department at the time

600
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:09,039
because i just had

601
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:10,880
no idea what to do

602
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:12,960
i understand i could still report that

603
00:21:17,830 --> 00:21:14,880
at this time that's right and now it's

604
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:17,840
so sketchy as far as i don't remember

605
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:19,679
i can't even remember the month

606
00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:21,919
that was you know i'd be guessing right

607
00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:24,880
so so anyway yeah we just interviewed on

608
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:27,280
our show so i'm a co-host on two shows

609
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:29,600
one is called calling all beings and

610
00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:31,200
it's a it's a panel show and we do

611
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:33,280
interviews we just had uh a couple of

612
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:35,280
gentlemen from the recent documentary

613
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:37,440
called a terror in the sky oh yes uh

614
00:21:42,789 --> 00:21:40,720
carolyn cory's documentary uh and um

615
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:42,799
the two gentlemen were david altman and

616
00:21:46,630 --> 00:21:45,200
david mason david mason is the yes

617
00:21:49,669 --> 00:21:46,640
inventor who kind of created some of

618
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:49,679
that uh surveillance uh equipment right

619
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:51,440
and uh you know what was really

620
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:53,919
interesting from that conversation is is

621
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:56,240
kind of the speculation that really this

622
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:58,720
is happening everywhere that it's just

623
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:00,240
that we don't have the kind of

624
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:02,880
instrumentation to to to see it and

625
00:22:05,909 --> 00:22:04,320
we're starting to get more of that

626
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:05,919
instrumentation

627
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:08,159
in place in various places across the

628
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:10,320
world uh and and that's pretty

629
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:11,520
interesting if you take the fact that

630
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:13,679
they were just out there for basically a

631
00:22:17,830 --> 00:22:15,760
week with equipment you know looking

632
00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:17,840
toward the catalina islands and just

633
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:19,280
seeing what they they could see and they

634
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:21,520
saw more than one anomalous

635
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:23,200
interesting thing happen

636
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:25,360
uh with their equipment so to me that

637
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:28,080
that says that this kind of thing is is

638
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:30,320
happening everywhere uh you know maybe

639
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:32,400
that is probably one of the

640
00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:34,799
uh disturbing qualities of it that if we

641
00:22:38,630 --> 00:22:36,159
talk about

642
00:22:40,630 --> 00:22:38,640
uh the issue of disclosure that could be

643
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:40,640
one of the reasons why we don't have

644
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:42,240
full disclosure is that it's it's

645
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:44,240
literally happening everywhere all the

646
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:47,440
time uh those of uh folks who are in the

647
00:22:52,390 --> 00:22:49,200
community who identify with being

648
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:52,400
experiencers often will tell you that

649
00:22:55,750 --> 00:22:54,159
these interaction interactions can

650
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:55,760
happen whether you want them to or not

651
00:22:59,909 --> 00:22:57,440
they're just going to appear

652
00:23:01,990 --> 00:22:59,919
uh wherever you may find yourself uh

653
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:02,000
even in some of your most sacred spaces

654
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:03,679
in your bedroom you know that this can

655
00:23:07,590 --> 00:23:05,760
just appear and so to me that that's

656
00:23:09,909 --> 00:23:07,600
something that we have to wrestle with

657
00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:09,919
if that is the truth that is the reality

658
00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:11,280
uh that's something that we all have to

659
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:12,880
deal with and how does that impact our

660
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:14,880
day-to-day life are the way in which we

661
00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:17,280
go about doing what we do and interact

662
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:18,400
with each other

663
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:19,200
uh

664
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:20,720
you know i think the floodgates are

665
00:23:24,789 --> 00:23:22,640
really going to open quite a bit the

666
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:24,799
more that the stigma does

667
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:25,919
decrease

668
00:23:31,270 --> 00:23:28,400
um you're going to and so i and for that

669
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:31,280
reason i think of disclosure is really a

670
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:34,320
it's a recursive process so you you can

671
00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:36,640
think of it like this that as the

672
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:39,440
government uh kind of puts forward a

673
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:42,320
little bit more of a normalized uh

674
00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:45,120
aspect of the phenomenon you know ufos

675
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:46,960
are real they're in the skies whatever

676
00:23:52,149 --> 00:23:49,840
then the public responds to that

677
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:52,159
fact by saying yes i have had an

678
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,320
experience that's just like that or i

679
00:23:58,870 --> 00:23:56,400
know someone who's had an experience

680
00:24:02,630 --> 00:23:58,880
just like that that then kind of adds to

681
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:02,640
the pile of momentum the government then

682
00:24:06,870 --> 00:24:04,640
can respond to that

683
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:06,880
interaction with okay this is what they

684
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:09,120
look like or this is how they behave

685
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:10,880
others then say well yes i know that

686
00:24:14,710 --> 00:24:12,640
that that's true because i have had an

687
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:14,720
experience in the same way so you can

688
00:24:18,149 --> 00:24:16,640
see that through this it's almost think

689
00:24:20,149 --> 00:24:18,159
of it as a dialogue you know that there

690
00:24:21,269 --> 00:24:20,159
is this kind of dialogue that needs to

691
00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:21,279
take place

692
00:24:26,870 --> 00:24:24,320
in a very public manner for this reality

693
00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:26,880
to be pervasive throughout the world

694
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:28,799
it's not something where you can

695
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:31,039
as much as we might want it to really

696
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:32,799
just kind of print a one-pager and hand

697
00:24:37,029 --> 00:24:35,039
it out to everybody in the globe and say

698
00:24:39,909 --> 00:24:37,039
here are the facts you know kind of deal

699
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:39,919
with it i think it is much more healthy

700
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:42,880
to do this in a fashion that is uh you

701
00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:45,760
know relational that that it does honor

702
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:48,559
the the facts but also is is listening

703
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:50,480
in response to the facts that are put

704
00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:52,799
forward because if we don't go through

705
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:55,919
those stages of of really communication

706
00:24:59,990 --> 00:24:58,080
listening understanding i think that

707
00:25:02,470 --> 00:25:00,000
there's a too much in my opinion at

708
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:02,480
least for a traumatic event to occur for

709
00:25:06,549 --> 00:25:04,559
a lot of people you don't give folks

710
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:06,559
time to process what is really taking

711
00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:09,360
place and we all need time to process

712
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:11,840
something that is this significant in

713
00:25:16,630 --> 00:25:14,480
terms of how it impacts our world view

714
00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:16,640
yeah absolutely i mean

715
00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:18,320
one of the things that i've said a

716
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:19,919
number of times

717
00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:22,480
you know as doing the show while doing

718
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:23,679
the show is

719
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:24,650
you know if

720
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:26,240
[Music]

721
00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:28,640
if if for some reason

722
00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:30,720
the some part of the government

723
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:32,960
actually knows what is going on and

724
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:34,720
hasn't said anything they would have a

725
00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:36,640
lot of explaining to do

726
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:37,440
and

727
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:38,400
that

728
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:47,600
case

729
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:49,600
uh it would be because they would have

730
00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:51,360
no way to

731
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:53,200
protect us or

732
00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:55,440
you know have no control over

733
00:25:59,830 --> 00:25:57,760
what's coming into our skies so that

734
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:59,840
would be you know could be a scary thing

735
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:01,120
for a lot of people

736
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:02,720
right whether they're there's nothing

737
00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:04,480
has happened as of yet

738
00:26:09,029 --> 00:26:07,440
or not but uh someone uh jay allen thank

739
00:26:11,789 --> 00:26:09,039
you for putting this in caps here's a

740
00:26:14,549 --> 00:26:11,799
question from the chat room uh given the

741
00:26:16,390 --> 00:26:14,559
phenomenology discussion does nathan

742
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:16,400
have a comment on the hitchhiker

743
00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:19,039
phenomenon experienced by intel agents

744
00:26:22,149 --> 00:26:21,039
military and scientists at skinwalker

745
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:22,159
ranch

746
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:24,960
absolutely so and and this is i think

747
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:27,440
going to take us uh toward kind of the

748
00:26:31,190 --> 00:26:29,200
the consciousness connection or

749
00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:31,200
conversation which is i think quite

750
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:34,960
popular now uh in this in this topic so

751
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:38,720
uh my my take on that is that uh

752
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:41,360
consciousness is is the sort of

753
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:43,600
fundamental quality of reality that that

754
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:45,200
the things that we

755
00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:47,520
think of as as matter

756
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:49,600
the material that we're all used to that

757
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:51,520
is a

758
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:54,000
an epiphenomenon of consciousness

759
00:26:58,950 --> 00:26:56,320
uh if that is the case and i know you

760
00:27:00,149 --> 00:26:58,960
had a show with um dr bob davis and dave

761
00:27:01,909 --> 00:27:00,159
beatty where they talked about this

762
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:01,919
quite quite a bit uh so i point your

763
00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:03,840
listeners to that show which i think was

764
00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:06,240
really quite well done uh if that is the

765
00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:10,000
case then the the way in which our

766
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:13,200
our experiences overlap is sort of is

767
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:15,120
sort of a way that we cannot necessarily

768
00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:17,760
directly perceive so consciousness think

769
00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:18,960
of it as

770
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:23,279
ocean you know so if we're all part of

771
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:24,320
the ocean

772
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:27,360
we manifest in our individual selves as

773
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:29,840
uh as ripples in the water or you can

774
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:32,240
think of us as kind of individuated

775
00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:34,080
whirlpools in the water you can't take

776
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:36,960
the whirlpool or the ripple out of the

777
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:38,960
water but you can see it it has boundary

778
00:27:43,269 --> 00:27:40,720
it has dead definition it has it has

779
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:43,279
quality and so what's happening with

780
00:27:49,909 --> 00:27:46,960
this sort of hitchhiker event or effect

781
00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:49,919
is that these individual conscious

782
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:52,080
agents you know these folks who

783
00:27:57,029 --> 00:27:54,480
went to skinwalker ranch for example

784
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:57,039
uh their consciousness is essentially

785
00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:00,080
kind of it it's coming into contact with

786
00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:03,200
other conscious agents that exist in in

787
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:05,360
reality but may not be perceived in the

788
00:28:10,389 --> 00:28:08,000
reality that that we know as

789
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:10,399
material reality as that as those

790
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:12,880
conscious agents kind of overlap

791
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:14,399
uh you know sort of qualities and

792
00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:17,039
characteristics of each of those agents

793
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:18,080
sort of

794
00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:20,640
intermingle or entwine or you can think

795
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:22,880
of it as entanglement in a way to use

796
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,360
kind of to borrow a quantum

797
00:28:30,789 --> 00:28:27,840
terminology there and so

798
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:30,799
that human conscious agent has now been

799
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:33,840
exposed has been uh

800
00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:36,480
intermingled with a non-human conscious

801
00:28:41,350 --> 00:28:39,279
agent and that impacts that human in

802
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:41,360
ways that manifest itself

803
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:43,120
as uh

804
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:44,880
you know sort of the visions that that

805
00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:47,520
you hear about the poltergeist activity

806
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:50,720
and and so forth and so it's um

807
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:52,320
i don't particularly like the kind of

808
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:54,559
the virology or the or the or the

809
00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:57,600
contamination uh sort of lingo that that

810
00:29:02,549 --> 00:28:59,600
is used to describe it i think of it

811
00:29:03,430 --> 00:29:02,559
more or less as uh these are moments in

812
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:03,440
which

813
00:29:07,269 --> 00:29:05,200
individuated consciousness human

814
00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:07,279
consciousness is coming into contact

815
00:29:12,789 --> 00:29:09,760
with non-human consciousness and is thus

816
00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:12,799
changed in the process

817
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:13,840
wow

818
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:15,679
interesting um

819
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:17,200
well

820
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:19,120
as far as

821
00:29:23,830 --> 00:29:21,440
it's still hard for me to understand the

822
00:29:26,789 --> 00:29:23,840
consciousness connection i know you you

823
00:29:27,909 --> 00:29:26,799
did you did a fairly good job

824
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:27,919
but

825
00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:33,200
understand

826
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:34,720
how that has

827
00:29:38,830 --> 00:29:37,360
the connection between people seeing

828
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:38,840
ufos

829
00:29:42,789 --> 00:29:41,760
um also when it comes to

830
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:42,799
you know if it's something that's

831
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:44,399
manifested

832
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:47,600
um from the individual somehow

833
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:49,360
then what about

834
00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:50,880
um

835
00:29:54,310 --> 00:29:52,640
mass sightings where there's hundreds of

836
00:29:55,350 --> 00:29:54,320
witnesses you know how does how does

837
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:55,360
that

838
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:57,120
all work when it comes to this type of

839
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:57,840
thing

840
00:30:01,909 --> 00:29:58,960
sure so

841
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:01,919
we are all part of that uh consciousness

842
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:04,480
substrate you know so we all

843
00:30:07,750 --> 00:30:05,440
even though

844
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:07,760
you know you are martin and i am nathan

845
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:10,720
we emerge out of that base layer where

846
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:12,640
we that we all share

847
00:30:16,389 --> 00:30:14,399
uh and so i think there are a couple of

848
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:16,399
on-ramps to the this uh the way of

849
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:17,600
thinking about this i'll give one

850
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:19,760
analogy i'm gonna steal it from

851
00:30:22,870 --> 00:30:21,600
uh someone that i think if people are

852
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:22,880
interested in this and learning more

853
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:25,600
about consciousness and uh you know the

854
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:27,520
way that it works as a metaphysical

855
00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:29,760
concept i would point them to a man

856
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:32,159
named dr bernardo castro

857
00:30:36,149 --> 00:30:34,480
so dr castrop is not a ufologist he's

858
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:36,159
not you know really focusing on this

859
00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:37,600
subject but he is

860
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:40,240
uh what he calls an analytic idealist

861
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:41,760
and and so you can you have two sort of

862
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:43,600
models of reality you have materialism

863
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:44,960
and you have idealism so he's an

864
00:30:49,190 --> 00:30:47,279
idealist which again believes that

865
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:49,200
consciousness is at the the base layer

866
00:30:53,110 --> 00:30:51,279
of reality so what the analogy that he

867
00:30:55,269 --> 00:30:53,120
uses what i think is quite useful is the

868
00:30:58,389 --> 00:30:55,279
analogy of flying an airplane

869
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:58,399
all right so you can fly an airplane uh

870
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,480
really by just looking at the dashboard

871
00:31:03,430 --> 00:31:02,240
of dials in front of you you don't have

872
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:03,440
to see

873
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:06,159
the air around you the sky if you if

874
00:31:10,789 --> 00:31:08,640
your instrumentation is good you can

875
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:10,799
literally fly the airplane through the

876
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:12,880
atmosphere and they they teach pilots

877
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:14,720
how to do this because there are moments

878
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:16,320
where they have very low visibility and

879
00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:18,399
they have to trust their instrumentation

880
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:21,760
right so just like that is the case

881
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:23,919
our our perceptions

882
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:26,159
so all of our sensory perception our

883
00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:28,720
taste our our touch our sight hearing

884
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:30,320
all the these things they they

885
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:33,760
compromising and uh and constitute the

886
00:31:37,509 --> 00:31:35,760
dashboard they are the dashboard they

887
00:31:38,549 --> 00:31:37,519
are the way in which we interact with

888
00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:38,559
the world

889
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:41,120
we don't have direct sight though to the

890
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:44,080
world as it really is and this is this

891
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:46,240
is not something that's really hard to

892
00:31:49,830 --> 00:31:47,679
get your mind around because we all

893
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:49,840
understand this from just a base

894
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:50,960
scientific

895
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:53,120
level we know that the light spectrum

896
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:55,919
that you that we see the the human

897
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:57,760
range of light that we can actually

898
00:32:03,509 --> 00:32:00,880
perceive is very very small in the large

899
00:32:04,630 --> 00:32:03,519
band that exists and we know that

900
00:32:06,630 --> 00:32:04,640
uh

901
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:06,640
insects and other animals and you know

902
00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:08,720
our household pets you know they they

903
00:32:12,070 --> 00:32:10,880
perceive reality in in different

904
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:12,080
spectrums

905
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:13,679
than we do

906
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:14,720
and so

907
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:18,000
what base reality actually looks like

908
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:21,120
is all filtered through the perceptions

909
00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:23,120
that each of us have so there's human

910
00:32:27,590 --> 00:32:25,600
perception and animal perception and you

911
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:27,600
know insect perception all of those have

912
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:29,840
different filters on what is actually

913
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:32,640
happening at that base reality

914
00:32:35,350 --> 00:32:33,840
level

915
00:32:37,509 --> 00:32:35,360
so if you think of it from that

916
00:32:39,509 --> 00:32:37,519
perspective there's quite a lot that can

917
00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:39,519
be taking place

918
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:42,320
beyond our ability to perceive it and

919
00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:43,679
and just like we talked about with the

920
00:32:47,750 --> 00:32:45,519
terror in the sky and david mason and

921
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:47,760
his and his inventions you know he has

922
00:32:51,669 --> 00:32:50,159
inventions that now allow him to see

923
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:51,679
sort of aspects

924
00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:53,840
of uh things that happen in the in the

925
00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:55,440
light spectrum that we can't see but you

926
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:58,080
can put it on a screen so just as that

927
00:33:01,669 --> 00:32:59,760
is taking place there there's

928
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:01,679
phenomenology happening all around us

929
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:03,679
that we cannot directly perceive

930
00:33:07,509 --> 00:33:05,600
when mass sightings happen it's just

931
00:33:09,269 --> 00:33:07,519
that in those moments

932
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:09,279
whatever is happening at the layer that

933
00:33:14,789 --> 00:33:12,080
we cannot perceive it it it basically

934
00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:14,799
pops into the layer which we can

935
00:33:20,710 --> 00:33:17,840
and so it comes it emerges out of that

936
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:20,720
lower layer into a layer which we all

937
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,039
happen to be able to interact with

938
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:25,679
and so with consciousness

939
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:26,880
you know kind of coming back back to

940
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:29,840
that specifically you know we all can

941
00:33:34,789 --> 00:33:32,000
tap into that because we are all part of

942
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:34,799
that this consciousness helps explain

943
00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:35,679
the

944
00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:43,840
and obes and past life experience

945
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:45,760
uh remote viewing all of that is

946
00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:49,200
connected via consciousness and so if

947
00:33:52,549 --> 00:33:50,799
you think of it from that perspective

948
00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:52,559
everything that we experience everything

949
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:54,480
that takes place in our ability to

950
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:55,519
perceive

951
00:34:02,310 --> 00:33:58,960
is all happening at a at a level that is

952
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:02,320
emerging from a consciousness layer

953
00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:04,080
and you know it is a difficult concept

954
00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:06,559
because it's not the way in which we are

955
00:34:11,349 --> 00:34:08,879
taught you know we're all born into

956
00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:11,359
a materialist world from the very moment

957
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:13,760
we enter the you know our our lives we

958
00:34:16,950 --> 00:34:15,119
are taught that

959
00:34:19,829 --> 00:34:16,960
this is how things work and this is how

960
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:19,839
things are ordered and our science is

961
00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:21,679
structured around this as well

962
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:23,520
so it's it's a very difficult way to

963
00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:25,280
sort of think about it but more and more

964
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:27,040
our quantum physics

965
00:34:31,990 --> 00:34:29,679
our neuroscience is pointing toward the

966
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:32,000
fact that consciousness is not

967
00:34:36,389 --> 00:34:34,480
an emergent property of matter it's not

968
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:36,399
an emergent property of our brain

969
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:38,960
activity it's something that happens at

970
00:34:46,829 --> 00:34:45,990
interesting analogies and all that i do

971
00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:46,839
you know

972
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:48,399
uh

973
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:54,800
i really you know i i really don't know

974
00:34:59,349 --> 00:34:56,800
uh you know i'm trying to think of what

975
00:35:01,190 --> 00:34:59,359
type of questions for one thing does

976
00:35:02,390 --> 00:35:01,200
this mean that

977
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:02,400
if uh

978
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:05,599
you happen to be outside and you see

979
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:08,480
a bigfoot or you see a ghost or you see

980
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:10,480
a ufo fly overhead

981
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:12,079
that it's possible

982
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:14,240
even if other people see it that that's

983
00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:16,720
not what really is happening

984
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:18,880
well it is a representation of something

985
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:20,400
else right so

986
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:22,480
there it's not that it's not happening

987
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:25,040
but what bigfoot really is it depends on

988
00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:27,200
your perspective right so

989
00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:30,320
uh for example you and i are made of you

990
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:32,480
know atoms and molecules and if we go

991
00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:34,160
further and further down

992
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:36,400
from that we are smaller and smaller you

993
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,119
know sort of particles quantum particles

994
00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:41,280
so it's a matter of perspective who is

995
00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:43,520
martin you know who is nathan these are

996
00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:44,400
things that

997
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:46,640
from our level of perception are

998
00:35:51,990 --> 00:35:49,920
constituent holes so you have a clearly

999
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:52,000
defined you know boundary of who martin

1000
00:35:57,270 --> 00:35:53,359
is as do i

1001
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:57,280
but from other vantage points in reality

1002
00:36:02,870 --> 00:35:59,760
you don't maintain that that same level

1003
00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:02,880
of uh sort of um

1004
00:36:07,030 --> 00:36:04,960
cohesiveness you don't have that same

1005
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:07,040
martin-ness if you look at martin from

1006
00:36:11,910 --> 00:36:10,320
the vantage point of a microbe

1007
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:11,920
you know there is no martin at that

1008
00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:14,240
level of awareness you know so

1009
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:16,720
the bigfoot uh you know it's it's

1010
00:36:21,109 --> 00:36:18,880
exactly the same it's it's yes to you

1011
00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:21,119
and i it is a bigfoot entity what is it

1012
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:23,359
though at a root level we don't know uh

1013
00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:24,880
another good example of this so i can

1014
00:36:29,589 --> 00:36:27,440
point your listeners to it is uh dr

1015
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:29,599
donald hoffman he's done a lot of work

1016
00:36:33,670 --> 00:36:31,760
on uh he has a book called the case

1017
00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:33,680
again against reality

1018
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,079
and the analogy that he uses is one of a

1019
00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:38,400
computer screen and so he basically says

1020
00:36:41,589 --> 00:36:39,520
you know we're all familiar with a

1021
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:41,599
desktop interface we have icons on our

1022
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:43,920
computer screen we have the trash bin on

1023
00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:45,839
our computer screen if we drag a file

1024
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:48,320
into the trash bin we know that in the

1025
00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:50,400
computer that's our way of of throwing

1026
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:52,560
away or discarding or deleting that file

1027
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:54,720
but we also know that's not literally a

1028
00:37:01,030 --> 00:36:57,680
trash bin it's not literally a trash can

1029
00:37:03,510 --> 00:37:01,040
it is represented as a representation of

1030
00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:03,520
of code that that is in the system but

1031
00:37:07,589 --> 00:37:05,359
it's something that we can interact with

1032
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:07,599
you and i wouldn't i'm not a coder

1033
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:08,880
and you probably aren't either martin

1034
00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:10,720
but you know you and i can interact with

1035
00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:13,040
the software that powers our machines

1036
00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:15,200
that's why we have these icons that we

1037
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,000
have created so that we can work with

1038
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:20,320
these very complex systems that are

1039
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:22,960
based on this this kind of code and his

1040
00:37:29,030 --> 00:37:25,680
argument is that evolutionarily humans

1041
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:29,040
are exactly the same we have evolved

1042
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:31,760
in order to see the world from uh from

1043
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:33,280
the vantage point of

1044
00:37:36,870 --> 00:37:35,040
of how how we survive in that

1045
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:36,880
environment we don't need to see the

1046
00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:38,720
world as it really is we only need to

1047
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:41,200
see the world how it helps us to to

1048
00:37:45,670 --> 00:37:44,160
survive so it's an interesting it's a

1049
00:37:47,829 --> 00:37:45,680
kind of a mind-bending way of thinking

1050
00:37:49,829 --> 00:37:47,839
about things but it really is

1051
00:37:52,069 --> 00:37:49,839
i think something that is uh going to be

1052
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:52,079
a part of this conversation because it

1053
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:54,240
does tie into all of the various

1054
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:56,480
phenomenology that we that we are

1055
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:59,040
talking about from from the paranormal

1056
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:00,400
to ufos

1057
00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:04,000
uh to nde obe past life experience to

1058
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:06,240
psy phenomenon it all really does

1059
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:07,359
connect

1060
00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:09,280
through this particular

1061
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:11,440
metaphysical model

1062
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:13,839
now but you mentioned the spectrum we we

1063
00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:15,280
see a small

1064
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:17,280
amount of the spectrum

1065
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:18,960
and

1066
00:38:24,310 --> 00:38:22,160
i wonder also like

1067
00:38:26,069 --> 00:38:24,320
what could you know what

1068
00:38:29,270 --> 00:38:26,079
is it possible there's a lot going

1069
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:29,280
around us on around us that we're just

1070
00:38:33,030 --> 00:38:31,200
totally unaware of

1071
00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:33,040
in in a way you know we get more

1072
00:38:35,670 --> 00:38:34,880
equipment there's more the military has

1073
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:35,680
more

1074
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:37,680
equipment and and different parts of the

1075
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:39,680
wavelengths that they can

1076
00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:43,440
uh you know report on uh

1077
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:45,920
get data on stuff like that so i'm just

1078
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:46,880
wondering

1079
00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:48,960
if there's like a lot going are we going

1080
00:38:53,430 --> 00:38:50,800
to be able to find more

1081
00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:53,440
of what's going on around us

1082
00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:55,520
all the time that we can't see now you

1083
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:58,160
know in the future technology is that

1084
00:39:02,230 --> 00:38:59,599
do you think it's going to head that way

1085
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:02,240
i absolutely think so i think that life

1086
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:03,520
is abundant

1087
00:39:09,109 --> 00:39:06,720
in the universe i think that uh if you

1088
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:09,119
look at uh things like take what louis

1089
00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:10,960
elizondo himself has said he's talked

1090
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:12,640
about

1091
00:39:17,109 --> 00:39:14,560
for a very long time we didn't know that

1092
00:39:19,270 --> 00:39:17,119
there was an entire kingdom that existed

1093
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:19,280
in in you know on the earth and that's

1094
00:39:23,349 --> 00:39:20,880
the kingdom of uh

1095
00:39:24,870 --> 00:39:23,359
the microbiome and uh

1096
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:24,880
you know all of a sudden we discovered

1097
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:26,720
that you know here it is and it's

1098
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:28,560
everywhere it's it's literally

1099
00:39:32,069 --> 00:39:30,560
everywhere it's inside of us it's

1100
00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:32,079
it's there are a few places on earth

1101
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:33,280
where you can go

1102
00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:36,560
and not find uh them you know microbes

1103
00:39:41,829 --> 00:39:39,119
and so i think in the same way as our

1104
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:41,839
understanding advances uh we're going to

1105
00:39:47,430 --> 00:39:44,960
find that intelligent life is

1106
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:47,440
literally everywhere in the cosmos that

1107
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:50,160
it's uh it takes many different forms

1108
00:39:54,310 --> 00:39:51,680
that we're interacting with a lot of

1109
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:54,320
different phenomena that you know just

1110
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:55,599
the way that we

1111
00:40:01,670 --> 00:39:57,920
perceive it has been pretty limited and

1112
00:40:04,550 --> 00:40:01,680
as as you said as our ability to uh to

1113
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:04,560
analyze it to uh take in more data

1114
00:40:08,309 --> 00:40:06,319
what's happening it's just allowed us to

1115
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:08,319
kind of open up the aperture of our

1116
00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:11,280
perception to see more of what has been

1117
00:40:15,030 --> 00:40:12,880
there all along

1118
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:15,040
and so yeah i wholeheartedly agree with

1119
00:40:19,510 --> 00:40:17,200
that and then what and then what follows

1120
00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:19,520
from that understanding right so that

1121
00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:21,040
really is are the questions that i'm

1122
00:40:24,790 --> 00:40:23,359
interested in is that once we come to

1123
00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:24,800
this place that

1124
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:28,000
we can agree that that is the reality

1125
00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:30,560
you know that that there are et's and

1126
00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:32,000
interdimensionals and everything in

1127
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:34,800
between you know what does that mean for

1128
00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:36,960
for us as as human beings you know how

1129
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:39,359
do we go about our lives how do we

1130
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:42,079
interact how do we advance our science

1131
00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:43,440
um

1132
00:40:46,470 --> 00:40:45,359
it's really going to impact every single

1133
00:40:48,390 --> 00:40:46,480
facet

1134
00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:48,400
of our culture and civilization i think

1135
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:50,319
we're we're on kind of the cusp of the

1136
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:52,640
sea change there and a dramatic paradigm

1137
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,400
shift that's going to take place once

1138
00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:56,640
this becomes

1139
00:41:02,150 --> 00:40:58,880
commonly accepted

1140
00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:04,550
there's a question that came up

1141
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:06,480
can you address the concern that some

1142
00:41:10,470 --> 00:41:08,720
have saying that and i've heard this all

1143
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:10,480
along you know we can't have disclosure

1144
00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:12,240
because it would destroy our religious

1145
00:41:17,109 --> 00:41:14,000
traditions

1146
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:17,119
yeah well i would argue that uh

1147
00:41:23,670 --> 00:41:21,200
as as our culture changes over time

1148
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:23,680
we constantly reinvent our religious

1149
00:41:26,470 --> 00:41:25,040
tradition

1150
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,480
i don't think i don't think people

1151
00:41:30,150 --> 00:41:28,319
perceive it because they're born into it

1152
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:30,160
and as you're born into something you

1153
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:31,280
think that that's just the way it's

1154
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:32,960
always been

1155
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:34,400
the beliefs that i've been given are the

1156
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:36,000
way they've always been but the reality

1157
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:37,760
is they have changed

1158
00:41:43,829 --> 00:41:40,560
uh through every generation that that

1159
00:41:46,950 --> 00:41:43,839
the uh kind of doctrine that your

1160
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:46,960
religious tradition has adopted uh

1161
00:41:53,109 --> 00:41:49,920
you know is is very dynamic and changes

1162
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:53,119
based on culture and time

1163
00:41:57,589 --> 00:41:55,920
uh personal experience uh you can and i

1164
00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:57,599
can i can point to the many different

1165
00:42:02,150 --> 00:42:00,079
denominations of the world religions as

1166
00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:02,160
proof of this you know that there's so

1167
00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:04,240
many different interpretations of kind

1168
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:06,400
of the the core texts or the core

1169
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:08,720
stories of each tradition that i think

1170
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:12,640
there's ample room for a reinvention of

1171
00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:13,680
religious

1172
00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:14,960
you know belief

1173
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:17,200
in in light of in the face of new

1174
00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:18,960
information i think that uh it really

1175
00:42:23,349 --> 00:42:21,520
just then comes down to whether or not

1176
00:42:25,270 --> 00:42:23,359
you you want to you know whether or not

1177
00:42:26,309 --> 00:42:25,280
you think that that narrative still

1178
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:26,319
holds

1179
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,960
some sort of power or importance for you

1180
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:30,640
and and for some that it will for some

1181
00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:32,960
that it will make a lot of sense to

1182
00:42:37,589 --> 00:42:35,599
uh to adopt that tradition and language

1183
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:37,599
and it'll help them make sense of this

1184
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:39,680
new reality and for some it won't for

1185
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:41,520
some it'll fall

1186
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:44,400
really short of helping and and they'll

1187
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:45,760
you know kind of toss it in the

1188
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:47,440
waistband and move on and adopt

1189
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:49,040
something else and we'll see

1190
00:42:52,870 --> 00:42:51,200
i think some new religious uh sort of

1191
00:42:53,910 --> 00:42:52,880
traditions emerge

1192
00:42:56,069 --> 00:42:53,920
from

1193
00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:56,079
this reality as well dot and dr diana

1194
00:43:00,390 --> 00:42:58,079
basulka has talked about that in her

1195
00:43:03,829 --> 00:43:00,400
book american cosmic that this is we're

1196
00:43:05,510 --> 00:43:03,839
kind of witnessing in a way the birth of

1197
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:05,520
some new religious perspectives and

1198
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:07,680
beliefs that aren't like what we've seen

1199
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:09,359
in the past

1200
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:11,760
right well um you know the

1201
00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:17,270
the catholic church has really changed

1202
00:43:21,670 --> 00:43:20,079
their stance a lot i've seen this

1203
00:43:23,670 --> 00:43:21,680
over the years where

1204
00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:23,680
and i thought one of them was well i

1205
00:43:28,309 --> 00:43:26,800
should never say when it comes to

1206
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:28,319
something like this that was kind of

1207
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:31,040
funny but um it was interesting i'll put

1208
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:33,280
it that way that i believe the pope i

1209
00:43:36,790 --> 00:43:36,000
think it was maybe five years ago

1210
00:43:39,670 --> 00:43:36,800
said

1211
00:43:42,069 --> 00:43:39,680
that uh we we can certainly baptize them

1212
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:42,079
if they come here and they're friendly

1213
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:42,880
yeah

1214
00:43:46,870 --> 00:43:45,520
you know uh but

1215
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:46,880
at least they're

1216
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:49,040
they're open to

1217
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:50,720
you know like it's not

1218
00:43:56,069 --> 00:43:52,720
it could be more than just earth

1219
00:43:57,030 --> 00:43:56,079
and i i really i think it would be silly

1220
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:57,040
today

1221
00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:59,359
to think that we're the only

1222
00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:01,920
kids on the block you know right here

1223
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:03,200
um i

1224
00:44:09,430 --> 00:44:06,240
i think a life of life

1225
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:09,440
is is hearty and it wants to be

1226
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:11,280
here

1227
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:13,680
with all the elements that we have that

1228
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:16,319
support it and i think any place that

1229
00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:18,880
can support life i think life will

1230
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:22,319
will be there right so hardly agree yeah

1231
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:25,119
and you know and it's very if you look

1232
00:44:29,109 --> 00:44:26,160
at

1233
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:29,119
all every species on earth we're

1234
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:31,760
uh symmetrical you know we have two eyes

1235
00:44:35,670 --> 00:44:34,079
two ears you know uh

1236
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:35,680
for the most part we're we're all the

1237
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:37,040
same there's

1238
00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:39,760
uh quarter pad and by pet peedle and you

1239
00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:42,240
know all that but it's all symmetrical

1240
00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:44,000
and that might be

1241
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:45,119
something that

1242
00:44:49,510 --> 00:44:46,720
happens and

1243
00:44:50,870 --> 00:44:49,520
happens everywhere or maybe not uh

1244
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:50,880
there's all these things you know

1245
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:52,720
gravity could change something

1246
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:56,400
uh the rotation of two stars and a you

1247
00:44:59,430 --> 00:44:58,319
know and a binary system could change

1248
00:45:02,230 --> 00:44:59,440
things

1249
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:02,240
you know it's all uh air oxygen

1250
00:45:06,790 --> 00:45:04,480
you know whatever it is yeah

1251
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:06,800
no i i think it could take all kinds of

1252
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:09,359
forms and uh you know the romantic in me

1253
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:11,040
is really excited to see what forms it

1254
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:14,000
may take uh you know so i i do i love

1255
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:16,880
the e-t hypothesis because

1256
00:45:21,670 --> 00:45:18,960
it is the most familiar in many ways

1257
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:21,680
it's the most uh easily adoptable you

1258
00:45:25,349 --> 00:45:23,760
know there there are life forms that

1259
00:45:27,670 --> 00:45:25,359
exist in other planets just like we

1260
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:27,680
exist on this one they're intelligent

1261
00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:30,319
just like we are they're more advanced

1262
00:45:34,470 --> 00:45:31,760
let's learn from them let's have an

1263
00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:34,480
exchange let's have a relationship with

1264
00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:36,000
who they are and what what kind of

1265
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:37,440
knowledge they can bring to the table

1266
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:39,359
that that's really you know a very

1267
00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:40,480
alluring

1268
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:42,480
picture to this whole story and i hope

1269
00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:44,079
that that i hope that that is true i

1270
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:46,480
hope that that is one of the facets of

1271
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:48,079
what is going on here

1272
00:45:52,870 --> 00:45:50,800
to me it's exciting to think about being

1273
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:52,880
part of a larger you know kind of

1274
00:45:59,030 --> 00:45:56,480
galactic uh cosmic family of intelligent

1275
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:59,040
life and being just one among many

1276
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:01,040
different species where life has taken

1277
00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:03,119
hold and found ways to

1278
00:46:07,829 --> 00:46:05,599
uh to mature and express itself i think

1279
00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:07,839
that would be an incredible gift to us

1280
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:10,000
as humanity to be able to have those

1281
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:11,920
kinds of interactions assuming that they

1282
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:14,560
aren't here to destroy us of course yeah

1283
00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:16,319
yeah we don't look like food to them we

1284
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:19,200
don't want that yep yeah or or all our

1285
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:22,240
you know i mean our resources right also

1286
00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:24,800
you know i mean like oh hey water and uh

1287
00:46:26,470 --> 00:46:25,680
you know

1288
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:26,480
uh

1289
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:28,800
oxygen let's suck all that out

1290
00:46:32,470 --> 00:46:31,200
yeah exactly here here's a clip i just

1291
00:46:34,309 --> 00:46:32,480
want to run i i thought it was an

1292
00:46:37,430 --> 00:46:34,319
interesting thing this is part of the

1293
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:37,440
aerial phenomenon uh trailer

1294
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:39,920
uh and hopefully this will work right

1295
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:41,599
i'm gonna try it now

1296
00:46:46,710 --> 00:46:43,920
let's see uh

1297
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:46,720
here we go here

1298
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:49,760
angels yes extraterrestrials no

1299
00:46:55,349 --> 00:46:52,160
just that one line

1300
00:46:57,190 --> 00:46:55,359
that was about dr mack yes and alan

1301
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:57,200
dershowitz wasn't it yeah that's right

1302
00:47:02,630 --> 00:47:01,440
that's exactly what it was yeah so yeah

1303
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:02,640
like

1304
00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:05,440
you know theology it's it's okay in a

1305
00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:07,440
school like harvard

1306
00:47:11,030 --> 00:47:09,680
and and it's you know believing in

1307
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:11,040
something that

1308
00:47:14,710 --> 00:47:13,920
there's there's no real evidence for

1309
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:14,720
right

1310
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:16,880
you know people say well the bible or

1311
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:18,880
whatever but you know the bible is it

1312
00:47:23,349 --> 00:47:21,760
was written by people you know i mean

1313
00:47:24,790 --> 00:47:23,359
i think

1314
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:24,800
as far as i know

1315
00:47:29,349 --> 00:47:26,480
well exactly i mean that's it's an

1316
00:47:31,030 --> 00:47:29,359
excellent point because i think we

1317
00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:31,040
we're so close

1318
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:32,880
to our traditions that we often can't

1319
00:47:37,109 --> 00:47:35,520
see them you know so the the bible is

1320
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:37,119
something that's just part of the fabric

1321
00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:39,839
of western culture

1322
00:47:43,109 --> 00:47:41,839
uh you know those who believe in that

1323
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:43,119
story

1324
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:44,559
they're they're really close to it and

1325
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:46,160
they don't can't they can't really take

1326
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:48,160
a step back and kind of see it as

1327
00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:49,599
something that is

1328
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:51,839
just another text from from a

1329
00:47:55,349 --> 00:47:53,200
compilation of lots of different

1330
00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:55,359
experiences that is trying to tell a

1331
00:47:59,430 --> 00:47:58,000
certain story about humanity uh and i

1332
00:48:00,870 --> 00:47:59,440
think once you

1333
00:48:03,670 --> 00:48:00,880
take a step back and look at it from

1334
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:03,680
that vantage point you can easily see

1335
00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:06,400
that it is just a set of of beliefs and

1336
00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:08,400
convictions that p that just a lot of

1337
00:48:13,670 --> 00:48:10,880
people had to adopt you know so that

1338
00:48:15,349 --> 00:48:13,680
makes it a lot more comfortable to to to

1339
00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:15,359
engage with you know because very

1340
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:17,440
interesting point right i mean it's the

1341
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:19,359
fabric of our you know you don't have to

1342
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:21,440
you don't seem like a weirdo if you

1343
00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:23,440
observe you know christmas because

1344
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:26,000
everybody in you know the us or whatever

1345
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:27,920
they all observe for christmas or many

1346
00:48:31,829 --> 00:48:30,640
many do so it it

1347
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:31,839
it becomes

1348
00:48:34,549 --> 00:48:33,680
i think to me it reinforces this idea

1349
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:34,559
that

1350
00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:36,480
the things in which we all hold in

1351
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:38,880
common or or the ways in which we hold

1352
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:41,119
beliefs in common really do in fact

1353
00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:42,720
shape the realities that we find

1354
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:45,200
ourselves so it is in many ways our our

1355
00:48:51,190 --> 00:48:48,000
beliefs are our ways of thinking our

1356
00:48:53,349 --> 00:48:51,200
mental activity that guide and shape

1357
00:48:55,349 --> 00:48:53,359
everything around us from from how

1358
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:55,359
things are supposed to work how we're

1359
00:48:58,630 --> 00:48:57,119
supposed to interact the things we're

1360
00:49:00,069 --> 00:48:58,640
supposed to observe who we're supposed

1361
00:49:01,750 --> 00:49:00,079
to be with you know what we're supposed

1362
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:01,760
to name our children what we're seeing

1363
00:49:06,630 --> 00:49:03,839
all of these things are impacted by

1364
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:06,640
our set of commonly shared beliefs and

1365
00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:09,440
it just so happens that ufos uh because

1366
00:49:14,230 --> 00:49:11,280
they're just not as widely

1367
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:14,240
uh you know part of the lexicon that

1368
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,800
they become weird and fringe and you

1369
00:49:20,069 --> 00:49:18,319
know something that you should be that

1370
00:49:22,230 --> 00:49:20,079
that should be shunned

1371
00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:22,240
i i just had something

1372
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:25,119
it's sort of related to this but i i

1373
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:27,680
just thought it was uh quite a statement

1374
00:49:31,109 --> 00:49:29,760
um a friend of mine was telling me about

1375
00:49:32,309 --> 00:49:31,119
a relative

1376
00:49:34,470 --> 00:49:32,319
that

1377
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:34,480
absolutely does not believe in god but

1378
00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:36,800
goes to church every single sunday

1379
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:39,599
hedging her bet to make sure that she's

1380
00:49:43,270 --> 00:49:41,359
just in case she might be wrong she

1381
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:43,280
still gets into heaven right how do you

1382
00:49:48,470 --> 00:49:45,119
like that one yeah i mean that's i've

1383
00:49:51,589 --> 00:49:48,480
heard that before um certainly from uh

1384
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,599
some seminarians as well um

1385
00:49:55,109 --> 00:49:53,520
you know i get that i get that you know

1386
00:49:56,549 --> 00:49:55,119
way of approaching it that you want to

1387
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:56,559
just sort of have all your bases covered

1388
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:57,680
but if you're really going to go that

1389
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:59,119
route you're going to have to go to a

1390
00:50:02,870 --> 00:50:00,559
lot of different different services from

1391
00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:02,880
a lot of different religious traditions

1392
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:04,160
that's right at the end of the day you

1393
00:50:07,349 --> 00:50:05,920
may believe nothing at all and

1394
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:07,359
everything all at the same time so it's

1395
00:50:11,589 --> 00:50:09,359
it's kind of difficult i think to uh to

1396
00:50:14,069 --> 00:50:11,599
live your life that way but uh i

1397
00:50:15,510 --> 00:50:14,079
understand it makes sense yeah yeah i

1398
00:50:17,750 --> 00:50:15,520
think you're right it would be very

1399
00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:17,760
difficult to put effort into something

1400
00:50:21,750 --> 00:50:19,119
you don't believe in

1401
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:21,760
just because you think it may serve you

1402
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:24,400
somehow right yeah here's another

1403
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:27,119
question from jay allen um

1404
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:29,200
interesting question is what if aliens

1405
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:31,280
have their own religion

1406
00:50:36,549 --> 00:50:33,920
would we treat that scenario as well as

1407
00:50:38,710 --> 00:50:36,559
we have in the past the crusades

1408
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:38,720
do you think they would force it on us

1409
00:50:42,309 --> 00:50:40,720
well you know that would my own opinion

1410
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:42,319
that would have to be if there's a

1411
00:50:46,630 --> 00:50:44,800
dominating being you know someone that

1412
00:50:47,510 --> 00:50:46,640
would you know intelligence always seems

1413
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:47,520
to

1414
00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:53,359
uh you know in in the past

1415
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:55,760
so you know anything stronger or more

1416
00:50:59,589 --> 00:50:56,880
intelligent

1417
00:51:01,109 --> 00:50:59,599
it's it's a possibility yeah i agree and

1418
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:01,119
i think that's a great it raises a great

1419
00:51:05,910 --> 00:51:03,359
point not just about whether or not they

1420
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:05,920
have a religious belief system but about

1421
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:07,839
any knowledge they may provide us or

1422
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:10,079
share with us just generally you know so

1423
00:51:16,230 --> 00:51:10,880
what

1424
00:51:17,910 --> 00:51:16,240
trust

1425
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:17,920
uh what should we be adopting what

1426
00:51:22,710 --> 00:51:20,480
should we not be adopting uh you know i

1427
00:51:25,589 --> 00:51:22,720
think a lot of people approach uh the

1428
00:51:28,069 --> 00:51:25,599
topic of aliens and ufos

1429
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:28,079
in in kind of the way in which uh it's

1430
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:30,240
like a revelatory moment right there

1431
00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:32,640
will be this moment in time where the

1432
00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:35,040
aliens will arrive they'll impart their

1433
00:51:39,030 --> 00:51:37,119
knowledge on humanity all of our

1434
00:51:41,910 --> 00:51:39,040
questions will be answered our cancers

1435
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:41,920
will be cured life becomes great and and

1436
00:51:46,069 --> 00:51:44,160
we just move on i think

1437
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:46,079
the reality is going to be

1438
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:48,240
far different that whatever they provide

1439
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:49,040
us

1440
00:51:57,270 --> 00:51:55,760
of questions and unknowns that we have

1441
00:51:59,589 --> 00:51:57,280
to wrestle with

1442
00:52:02,390 --> 00:51:59,599
and you know i for one am not

1443
00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:02,400
necessarily ready to take anything an

1444
00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:05,520
intelligent species that is not human uh

1445
00:52:10,069 --> 00:52:07,440
at face value i would need a lot of i

1446
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:10,079
think uh you know sort of evidence and

1447
00:52:14,630 --> 00:52:12,400
trust in that relationship for me to

1448
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:14,640
feel like i could say okay i i really

1449
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:17,040
believe you now and what you're telling

1450
00:52:20,470 --> 00:52:18,400
me you know if you've proven it to me

1451
00:52:21,910 --> 00:52:20,480
then i can believe it otherwise i think

1452
00:52:23,270 --> 00:52:21,920
we should be a little bit skeptical

1453
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:23,280
about that

1454
00:52:28,150 --> 00:52:25,920
i wouldn't you know we we may not even

1455
00:52:29,990 --> 00:52:28,160
know right the right questions to ask if

1456
00:52:32,950 --> 00:52:30,000
we had that opportunity

1457
00:52:34,390 --> 00:52:32,960
you know it it would you know of course

1458
00:52:36,390 --> 00:52:34,400
the like

1459
00:52:38,069 --> 00:52:36,400
why why are we here type of thing that

1460
00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:38,079
you know those type of questions whether

1461
00:52:41,990 --> 00:52:39,839
a higher intelligence would even know

1462
00:52:45,349 --> 00:52:42,000
that or not is another question it may

1463
00:52:47,270 --> 00:52:45,359
be of no concern to that intelligence

1464
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:47,280
uh what if they have no culture at all

1465
00:52:50,309 --> 00:52:48,720
you know what or what if their culture

1466
00:52:52,549 --> 00:52:50,319
looks nothing like ours do they have

1467
00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:52,559
what if they have no art no music

1468
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:54,079
i mean these are things that i think

1469
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:55,520
about and i think they're kind of

1470
00:53:04,870 --> 00:53:01,349
i have wondered you know i have wondered

1471
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:04,880
myself what would be the equivalent of

1472
00:53:10,150 --> 00:53:07,119
the first car or what would be

1473
00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:10,160
uh what would be music um you know music

1474
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:12,319
seems like it's almost like a unit it

1475
00:53:17,589 --> 00:53:15,359
could be a universal thing you know um

1476
00:53:19,430 --> 00:53:17,599
but but maybe not that's again thinking

1477
00:53:20,309 --> 00:53:19,440
in human terms they're they're thinking

1478
00:53:22,870 --> 00:53:20,319
maybe

1479
00:53:24,630 --> 00:53:22,880
absolutely mechanically different from

1480
00:53:27,510 --> 00:53:24,640
ours and

1481
00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:27,520
music would play no part of it which is

1482
00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:29,680
actually sad when you think about it

1483
00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:31,920
completely yeah what if they are

1484
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:33,599
you know thousands or millions of years

1485
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:35,680
ahead of us from a civilizational

1486
00:53:40,150 --> 00:53:38,079
standpoint and they basically evolved

1487
00:53:42,069 --> 00:53:40,160
out of all of that you know how would we

1488
00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:42,079
evaluate it you know what would we what

1489
00:53:46,630 --> 00:53:44,000
would we think about that well did you

1490
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:46,640
regret that your civilization gave up

1491
00:53:51,670 --> 00:53:49,440
in a sort of music and culture in that

1492
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:51,680
way uh you know a million years ago

1493
00:53:54,710 --> 00:53:53,280
would you wish that you still had that

1494
00:53:56,950 --> 00:53:54,720
you know what kind of and i think that

1495
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:56,960
that raises the question that i i find

1496
00:54:01,030 --> 00:53:59,040
interesting as well and that is i often

1497
00:54:02,950 --> 00:54:01,040
talk about disclosure in terms of what

1498
00:54:05,109 --> 00:54:02,960
it means for us

1499
00:54:07,270 --> 00:54:05,119
as human beings but i i think of it too

1500
00:54:10,069 --> 00:54:07,280
in terms of what it means for them

1501
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:10,079
you know so if we do come into a greater

1502
00:54:13,190 --> 00:54:11,280
awareness

1503
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:13,200
uh and engagement with

1504
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:14,960
whatever this phenomenon happens to be

1505
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:17,680
in all of its different forms

1506
00:54:21,829 --> 00:54:19,599
you know they then have to deal with us

1507
00:54:24,549 --> 00:54:21,839
in a much more direct way than they have

1508
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:24,559
before if if in fact there is a type of

1509
00:54:27,990 --> 00:54:26,160
relation that is taking place there a

1510
00:54:29,990 --> 00:54:28,000
relationship that is occurring

1511
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:30,000
um and what will that look like will

1512
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:31,920
they be really frustrated you know well

1513
00:54:34,870 --> 00:54:33,839
just like if you have small children and

1514
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:34,880
they don't know what they're doing and

1515
00:54:37,510 --> 00:54:36,240
they get into the kitchen and they make

1516
00:54:39,430 --> 00:54:37,520
a total mess

1517
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:39,440
you know you're really frustrated as a

1518
00:54:42,630 --> 00:54:40,640
parent that that happened are they going

1519
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:42,640
to be really frustrated with us if we

1520
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:44,079
you know learn something new and we just

1521
00:54:46,950 --> 00:54:45,359
don't know how to work work it out and

1522
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:46,960
we make a total mess of the you know

1523
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:48,960
alien technology i mean these are all

1524
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:51,119
things that i think we don't think about

1525
00:54:53,349 --> 00:54:52,400
that often

1526
00:54:56,870 --> 00:54:53,359
but

1527
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:56,880
the the reality post the disclosure is

1528
00:55:01,990 --> 00:54:59,200
one that is inclusive of

1529
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:02,000
our existence as the civilization

1530
00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:03,839
and theirs and how they really do

1531
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:06,640
interact with one another

1532
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:09,520
um yes and here's here's a comment here

1533
00:55:13,750 --> 00:55:11,680
more meandering conjecture yes that's

1534
00:55:15,829 --> 00:55:13,760
what we're doing um i think it's

1535
00:55:17,910 --> 00:55:15,839
fascinating to do that uh welcome to the

1536
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:17,920
show i mean we're we're not we're

1537
00:55:21,510 --> 00:55:19,440
definitely

1538
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:21,520
we're not gonna sit here and tell you uh

1539
00:55:25,510 --> 00:55:23,680
we know what the nuts and bolts of ufos

1540
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:25,520
are we know what

1541
00:55:31,190 --> 00:55:28,160
what is visiting our skies uh what

1542
00:55:32,870 --> 00:55:31,200
people are seeing we have absolutely

1543
00:55:35,109 --> 00:55:32,880
if either one of us says that then

1544
00:55:37,910 --> 00:55:35,119
change the channel yeah agree

1545
00:55:40,710 --> 00:55:37,920
so that's that's what it unfortunately

1546
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:40,720
this is what you get and you get uh

1547
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:42,960
really interesting stories of things

1548
00:55:47,030 --> 00:55:44,640
that have happened to people right and

1549
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:47,040
i'm also throw this out do you have is

1550
00:55:53,589 --> 00:55:51,520
there a particular case in the ufo world

1551
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:53,599
that you find more fascinating than

1552
00:55:57,190 --> 00:55:54,480
others

1553
00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:57,200
that's a great question so i i kind of

1554
00:56:02,549 --> 00:56:00,000
waffle on the well-known cases but also

1555
00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:02,559
the ones that i have heard more

1556
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:04,319
firsthand

1557
00:56:08,789 --> 00:56:06,160
and i find it interesting you know kind

1558
00:56:10,309 --> 00:56:08,799
of how the community does this as well

1559
00:56:12,390 --> 00:56:10,319
you know so

1560
00:56:14,549 --> 00:56:12,400
the more that a case has been written

1561
00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:14,559
about the more that it becomes you know

1562
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:17,920
kind of canonical important part of the

1563
00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:20,240
the lore you know and and the ones that

1564
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:22,240
you don't hear often about the ones that

1565
00:56:26,150 --> 00:56:23,760
you know your friend or your neighbor or

1566
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:26,160
yourself have experienced you know that

1567
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:28,400
they're they're just not given that much

1568
00:56:32,390 --> 00:56:30,480
attention so if i were to give one that

1569
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:32,400
i'm interested in as far as the you know

1570
00:56:35,349 --> 00:56:34,000
kind of the broad

1571
00:56:38,470 --> 00:56:35,359
ufo lore

1572
00:56:41,109 --> 00:56:38,480
uh i think of uh fatima which is an

1573
00:56:44,069 --> 00:56:41,119
interesting uh in a situation

1574
00:56:45,829 --> 00:56:44,079
mass sighting uh arguably of a ufo uh

1575
00:56:47,190 --> 00:56:45,839
and also of a being that appeared to

1576
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:47,200
those children

1577
00:56:53,030 --> 00:56:50,640
um and then the uh i think all the the

1578
00:56:54,309 --> 00:56:53,040
schoolyard cases are fascinating so the

1579
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:54,319
aerial one

1580
00:57:00,150 --> 00:56:57,280
the uh the wet west tall one and there

1581
00:57:01,670 --> 00:57:00,160
are others as well i think that uh you

1582
00:57:03,829 --> 00:57:01,680
know kids

1583
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:03,839
because of the way in which they have

1584
00:57:07,510 --> 00:57:05,520
not yet been

1585
00:57:09,430 --> 00:57:07,520
you know kind of

1586
00:57:11,109 --> 00:57:09,440
fully told the ways in which the world

1587
00:57:12,950 --> 00:57:11,119
works and the ways things should be and

1588
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:12,960
what what what they should be seeing and

1589
00:57:16,150 --> 00:57:14,559
not be seeing i think they're actually

1590
00:57:18,549 --> 00:57:16,160
better observers

1591
00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:18,559
of what is actually happening so i find

1592
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:20,640
that their accounts to be a lot more

1593
00:57:24,150 --> 00:57:22,319
credible particularly if there are

1594
00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:24,160
several of them so that i would say that

1595
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:25,520
those are examples of things that i'm

1596
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:26,720
interested in

1597
00:57:30,150 --> 00:57:28,079
you know from a

1598
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:30,160
literature standpoint the popular ones

1599
00:57:33,910 --> 00:57:31,680
and then there are those that have been

1600
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:33,920
shared with me uh that are you know

1601
00:57:39,109 --> 00:57:35,680
quite very you know very very personal

1602
00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:39,119
and impactful you know people who've had

1603
00:57:43,430 --> 00:57:41,119
direct encounters with you know giant

1604
00:57:45,990 --> 00:57:43,440
orbs or you know beings that have

1605
00:57:46,950 --> 00:57:46,000
essentially harassed them or craft that

1606
00:57:49,750 --> 00:57:46,960
have been

1607
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:49,760
a stone's throw away uh you know

1608
00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:51,200
from them that they can make out you

1609
00:57:55,030 --> 00:57:52,720
know very clear outline and

1610
00:57:56,789 --> 00:57:55,040
characteristics i mean those are

1611
00:57:58,390 --> 00:57:56,799
incredibly compelling stories from

1612
00:58:00,549 --> 00:57:58,400
people who i find to be

1613
00:58:02,470 --> 00:58:00,559
uh you know

1614
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:02,480
very reputable people people that would

1615
00:58:06,069 --> 00:58:04,559
be your neighbor you know that that you

1616
00:58:08,069 --> 00:58:06,079
would trust

1617
00:58:09,829 --> 00:58:08,079
you know um you know the way you you

1618
00:58:12,950 --> 00:58:09,839
just brought that up i i think i'm gonna

1619
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:12,960
give us a little treat here it's about

1620
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:14,400
eight minutes long i'm trying to pull it

1621
00:58:19,829 --> 00:58:17,760
up right now and uh i had a woman named

1622
00:58:22,230 --> 00:58:19,839
deb coyle on my show she may be

1623
00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:22,240
listening tonight uh she does listen to

1624
00:58:27,109 --> 00:58:24,880
the show uh this was a

1625
00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:27,119
a recording that she did

1626
00:58:31,190 --> 00:58:29,119
with me

1627
00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:31,200
and this was prior she did come on my

1628
00:58:35,750 --> 00:58:33,599
show and talk live on my show but i'd

1629
00:58:37,589 --> 00:58:35,760
like to share this video of a recording

1630
00:58:39,510 --> 00:58:37,599
she did with me

1631
00:58:41,430 --> 00:58:39,520
i believe it's about eight minutes long

1632
00:58:43,910 --> 00:58:41,440
and it's it's it's fascinating a

1633
00:58:46,390 --> 00:58:43,920
schoolyard if anyone hasn't seen didn't

1634
00:58:47,589 --> 00:58:46,400
see her live on the show this is her

1635
00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:47,599
original

1636
00:58:54,549 --> 00:58:51,040
me

1637
00:58:58,470 --> 00:58:54,559
right

1638
00:59:01,190 --> 00:58:58,480
back before i had her on on this show

1639
00:59:05,510 --> 00:59:02,630
i'm

1640
00:59:07,589 --> 00:59:05,520
this this happened in in south africa

1641
00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:07,599
here i am just trying to

1642
00:59:12,069 --> 00:59:10,079
trying to pull it up maybe i put it over

1643
00:59:13,910 --> 00:59:12,079
here let's see

1644
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:13,920
um

1645
00:59:18,150 --> 00:59:16,319
i i have it ready to go so it's just a

1646
00:59:22,309 --> 00:59:18,160
way of finding it so let me figure out

1647
00:59:27,829 --> 00:59:23,510
okay

1648
00:59:34,630 --> 00:59:31,829
and you know randall nickerson's

1649
00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:34,640
is out there ariel phenomenon

1650
00:59:42,789 --> 00:59:36,640
i'm getting

1651
00:59:44,549 --> 00:59:42,799
week i had such great email recently

1652
00:59:46,069 --> 00:59:44,559
from people that have watched that

1653
00:59:48,069 --> 00:59:46,079
a lot of people are complaining of the

1654
00:59:50,230 --> 00:59:48,079
price twenty dollars to watch it and

1655
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:50,240
it's a rental but i'll tell you the

1656
00:59:54,870 --> 00:59:52,480
people that are emailing me who said

1657
00:59:56,950 --> 00:59:54,880
worth every penny i feel like paying

1658
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:56,960
more it was such an incredible movie

1659
01:00:01,109 --> 00:59:59,280
agree everybody did you see it and the

1660
01:00:02,069 --> 01:00:01,119
passion that randall nickerson has put

1661
01:00:04,950 --> 01:00:02,079
into that

1662
01:00:07,109 --> 01:00:04,960
yeah over the many many years i mean

1663
01:00:08,950 --> 01:00:07,119
twenty dollars is nothing

1664
01:00:10,789 --> 01:00:08,960
for i know the time and energy that he

1665
01:00:13,270 --> 01:00:10,799
put into that production so thirteen and

1666
01:00:15,030 --> 01:00:13,280
a half years okay here is uh deb coyle

1667
01:00:23,910 --> 01:00:15,040
this is the original that she recorded

1668
01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:27,430
my the experience i had happened

1669
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:28,799
over my

1670
01:00:34,390 --> 01:00:30,720
elementary school

1671
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:34,400
in the town of bononi in south africa

1672
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:40,470
i want to say it probably happened

1673
01:00:44,710 --> 01:00:42,400
somewhere between i was i was trying to

1674
01:00:46,630 --> 01:00:44,720
figure this out because i don't remember

1675
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:46,640
the exact year

1676
01:00:52,630 --> 01:00:51,200
somewhere between 1975 and 1977.

1677
01:00:54,829 --> 01:00:52,640
um

1678
01:00:58,069 --> 01:00:54,839
so at that time i would have been

1679
01:01:01,910 --> 01:00:58,079
between eight and ten years old

1680
01:01:08,549 --> 01:01:04,630
standing on the corridor

1681
01:01:10,390 --> 01:01:08,559
facing out towards the main playground

1682
01:01:13,829 --> 01:01:10,400
there was a teacher on playground duty i

1683
01:01:15,030 --> 01:01:13,839
still remember who that teacher was

1684
01:01:19,510 --> 01:01:15,040
and

1685
01:01:21,670 --> 01:01:19,520
have had encounters

1686
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:21,680
and i'm not sure if you experienced this

1687
01:01:26,150 --> 01:01:23,520
when you had your encounter but people

1688
01:01:27,910 --> 01:01:26,160
will talk about experiencing things in a

1689
01:01:29,829 --> 01:01:27,920
certain way

1690
01:01:32,630 --> 01:01:29,839
so

1691
01:01:35,349 --> 01:01:34,390
it was like it wasn't there and all of a

1692
01:01:37,990 --> 01:01:35,359
sudden

1693
01:01:39,589 --> 01:01:38,000
there it was

1694
01:01:40,710 --> 01:01:39,599
sort of

1695
01:01:44,230 --> 01:01:40,720
it just

1696
01:01:47,190 --> 01:01:44,240
you know entered stage right or whatever

1697
01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:47,200
it seemed quite low

1698
01:01:52,549 --> 01:01:49,440
but again i was a little kid it's almost

1699
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:52,559
like you just like you had a forewarning

1700
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:54,960
or you were just somehow made aware

1701
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:57,920
because i was aware of like

1702
01:02:01,430 --> 01:01:59,680
of looking up

1703
01:02:03,990 --> 01:02:01,440
at this thing

1704
01:02:06,390 --> 01:02:04,000
typical ufo saucer shape

1705
01:02:08,470 --> 01:02:06,400
the color red

1706
01:02:10,069 --> 01:02:08,480
stands out in my memory

1707
01:02:11,670 --> 01:02:10,079
and

1708
01:02:14,870 --> 01:02:11,680
i'm pretty sure that's part of the

1709
01:02:17,589 --> 01:02:14,880
original encounter and not a fabrication

1710
01:02:19,910 --> 01:02:17,599
of my memory over time because i do

1711
01:02:21,910 --> 01:02:19,920
remember asking i do remember my dad

1712
01:02:23,270 --> 01:02:21,920
asking me to sketch it for him more than

1713
01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:23,280
once

1714
01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:27,839
and and i do remember like red the color

1715
01:02:33,029 --> 01:02:31,440
red just sticks in my memory

1716
01:02:35,190 --> 01:02:33,039
you know when something heats up like

1717
01:02:37,670 --> 01:02:35,200
when you see iron heated up

1718
01:02:38,630 --> 01:02:37,680
and it changes color and the color seems

1719
01:02:42,230 --> 01:02:38,640
to be

1720
01:02:44,230 --> 01:02:42,240
like throughout that piece of metal

1721
01:02:46,470 --> 01:02:44,240
the red seemed to be through oh like a

1722
01:02:49,270 --> 01:02:46,480
glo almost like a glowing almost like a

1723
01:02:49,620 --> 01:02:49,280
glow from the inside out

1724
01:02:51,190 --> 01:02:49,630
um

1725
01:02:55,270 --> 01:02:51,200
[Music]

1726
01:02:57,349 --> 01:02:55,280
and at that point i remember

1727
01:02:59,510 --> 01:02:57,359
and i don't remember feeling scared i

1728
01:03:01,829 --> 01:02:59,520
was just gonna ask you yeah

1729
01:03:04,950 --> 01:03:01,839
and it's also that thing where people i

1730
01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:04,960
will hear this over and over again

1731
01:03:09,670 --> 01:03:06,640
and i'll go yeah yeah that's exactly

1732
01:03:11,990 --> 01:03:09,680
what i remember the absence of sound

1733
01:03:13,990 --> 01:03:12,000
right just as if you were for a moment

1734
01:03:15,029 --> 01:03:14,000
we were in this vacuum we were in a

1735
01:03:17,829 --> 01:03:15,039
bubble

1736
01:03:20,549 --> 01:03:17,839
and there was no sounds at all no sound

1737
01:03:23,510 --> 01:03:20,559
no sound we were just like there was a

1738
01:03:24,630 --> 01:03:23,520
complete absence of sound wow

1739
01:03:25,750 --> 01:03:24,640
um

1740
01:03:27,589 --> 01:03:25,760
and

1741
01:03:30,069 --> 01:03:27,599
i remember looking out across the

1742
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:30,079
playground and seeing the teacher and

1743
01:03:37,589 --> 01:03:33,760
the other kids all looking up at it

1744
01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:37,599
and everything seemed to sort of be in

1745
01:03:42,789 --> 01:03:39,440
not in slow motion

1746
01:03:46,390 --> 01:03:42,799
it's almost like time was frozen

1747
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:46,400
really uh

1748
01:03:50,630 --> 01:03:48,960
so fear was not a feeling

1749
01:03:52,390 --> 01:03:50,640
do you remember other feelings not at

1750
01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:52,400
all

1751
01:03:59,670 --> 01:03:55,520
if anything it was just like

1752
01:04:03,430 --> 01:03:59,680
a feeling of oh

1753
01:04:04,390 --> 01:04:03,440
and because it was such a quick

1754
01:04:09,109 --> 01:04:04,400
thing

1755
01:04:11,109 --> 01:04:09,119
like it almost seemed it just stopped

1756
01:04:13,029 --> 01:04:11,119
and was there for a split second or at

1757
01:04:15,510 --> 01:04:13,039
least it seemed like it was there for a

1758
01:04:17,589 --> 01:04:15,520
split second and then

1759
01:04:21,109 --> 01:04:17,599
it just

1760
01:04:23,589 --> 01:04:21,119
it exited it was gone and i remember

1761
01:04:30,069 --> 01:04:26,789
wow fast that was fast and even at that

1762
01:04:33,109 --> 01:04:30,079
age i knew that that was

1763
01:04:35,670 --> 01:04:33,119
incredible and just like nothing that my

1764
01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:35,680
brain could make sense of because

1765
01:04:39,990 --> 01:04:38,160
um and i'd said this to you in the email

1766
01:04:42,150 --> 01:04:40,000
in the time it takes to blink it was

1767
01:04:43,349 --> 01:04:42,160
this tiny little red pinprick on the

1768
01:04:46,150 --> 01:04:43,359
horizon

1769
01:04:47,670 --> 01:04:46,160
this pinpoint and then it was gone and

1770
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:47,680
then

1771
01:04:52,710 --> 01:04:50,480
all the sound came back

1772
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:52,720
and i saw the teacher and the kids sort

1773
01:04:55,910 --> 01:04:54,400
of talking to each other and maybe they

1774
01:04:59,990 --> 01:04:55,920
were saying oh i wonder what that was

1775
01:05:02,309 --> 01:05:00,000
you know but again because i was a very

1776
01:05:04,069 --> 01:05:02,319
i was i was not the kind of kid who

1777
01:05:05,430 --> 01:05:04,079
would go running up to a teacher and say

1778
01:05:08,789 --> 01:05:05,440
what was that

1779
01:05:11,029 --> 01:05:08,799
um and really spend time with my peers

1780
01:05:13,510 --> 01:05:11,039
i sort of hung back and just watched

1781
01:05:14,710 --> 01:05:13,520
everybody's reaction and then that was

1782
01:05:16,789 --> 01:05:14,720
that

1783
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:16,799
and i guess at some point i must have

1784
01:05:22,870 --> 01:05:19,760
told my dad maybe it was the same

1785
01:05:25,270 --> 01:05:22,880
afternoon that i went home and said

1786
01:05:27,190 --> 01:05:25,280
i saw something strange

1787
01:05:29,029 --> 01:05:27,200
i really doubt i would have said ufo

1788
01:05:31,990 --> 01:05:29,039
because i didn't know what a ufo was we

1789
01:05:37,190 --> 01:05:32,000
didn't have tv in south africa until

1790
01:05:40,390 --> 01:05:38,069
um

1791
01:05:41,910 --> 01:05:40,400
and then it was only on for an hour to a

1792
01:05:43,510 --> 01:05:41,920
day and the rest of the time it was the

1793
01:05:45,029 --> 01:05:43,520
test pattern

1794
01:05:48,829 --> 01:05:45,039
so there wouldn't have been any

1795
01:05:56,390 --> 01:05:52,230
really know what any of that was i never

1796
01:05:58,069 --> 01:05:56,400
read any material about ufos

1797
01:05:59,829 --> 01:05:58,079
there was nothing that was part of my

1798
01:06:00,710 --> 01:05:59,839
experience

1799
01:06:02,829 --> 01:06:00,720
so

1800
01:06:06,069 --> 01:06:02,839
i've always thought about

1801
01:06:09,430 --> 01:06:06,079
it and

1802
01:06:11,829 --> 01:06:09,440
when you're a child life goes on

1803
01:06:15,270 --> 01:06:11,839
yeah and you sort of put it in the back

1804
01:06:18,390 --> 01:06:15,280
of your mind and

1805
01:06:20,230 --> 01:06:18,400
i'm not sure when i told my husband it

1806
01:06:22,230 --> 01:06:20,240
was probably not long after we were

1807
01:06:24,230 --> 01:06:22,240
married and we've been married for 32

1808
01:06:26,630 --> 01:06:24,240
years so

1809
01:06:27,910 --> 01:06:26,640
so he's known about it for a long time

1810
01:06:29,430 --> 01:06:27,920
and

1811
01:06:31,750 --> 01:06:29,440
but i've always

1812
01:06:34,710 --> 01:06:31,760
you know you know that there's a stigma

1813
01:06:40,950 --> 01:06:38,549
until recently i was a tutor

1814
01:06:43,349 --> 01:06:40,960
in our public schools in the town i live

1815
01:06:47,990 --> 01:06:45,349
so you don't you're not going to mention

1816
01:06:49,670 --> 01:06:48,000
it to people because there's a stigma

1817
01:06:50,549 --> 01:06:49,680
attached to it

1818
01:06:53,349 --> 01:06:50,559
um

1819
01:06:55,190 --> 01:06:53,359
my children know

1820
01:06:57,109 --> 01:06:55,200
and

1821
01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:57,119
they've never doubted me for a second

1822
01:07:01,029 --> 01:06:58,720
and my husband will say to me because

1823
01:07:03,510 --> 01:07:01,039
sometimes i'll talk his ear off about

1824
01:07:05,589 --> 01:07:03,520
ufos and about all the latest

1825
01:07:07,750 --> 01:07:05,599
information that's coming out i get very

1826
01:07:10,470 --> 01:07:07,760
very excited about you know certain

1827
01:07:12,470 --> 01:07:10,480
cases or i'll say that's exactly what

1828
01:07:14,309 --> 01:07:12,480
you know that specific part of their

1829
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:14,319
experience that's what i experienced and

1830
01:07:18,309 --> 01:07:16,559
he'll he's so patient you know just go

1831
01:07:20,230 --> 01:07:18,319
yep and i'll say

1832
01:07:21,670 --> 01:07:20,240
i know you i know this just doesn't

1833
01:07:23,029 --> 01:07:21,680
excite you the way it excites me and

1834
01:07:26,710 --> 01:07:23,039
he'll say you know what deb at the end

1835
01:07:29,510 --> 01:07:26,720
of the day i still got a job to go to a

1836
01:07:32,710 --> 01:07:29,520
mortgage to pay so yeah it doesn't

1837
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:32,720
really have an impact on my day to day i

1838
01:07:37,829 --> 01:07:35,280
can't give it as much room

1839
01:07:39,990 --> 01:07:37,839
space in my head as you do

1840
01:07:40,829 --> 01:07:40,000
and i always say to him but if you ever

1841
01:07:43,510 --> 01:07:40,839
have an

1842
01:07:45,510 --> 01:07:43,520
experience that will that'll change

1843
01:07:49,109 --> 01:07:45,520
that'll change

1844
01:07:50,549 --> 01:07:49,119
you can't help it it's just part of

1845
01:07:55,589 --> 01:07:50,559
you know

1846
01:07:57,829 --> 01:07:55,599
can talk you out of it and i always

1847
01:08:01,510 --> 01:07:57,839
think of is it james

1848
01:08:05,589 --> 01:08:01,520
fox's one documentary i know what i saw

1849
01:08:15,349 --> 01:08:05,599
right and those words are so true i know

1850
01:08:20,149 --> 01:08:18,229
that's great isn't it amazing love it uh

1851
01:08:21,510 --> 01:08:20,159
that's that's what you call a credible

1852
01:08:24,789 --> 01:08:21,520
witness

1853
01:08:25,829 --> 01:08:24,799
and totally real nice real nice woman

1854
01:08:26,709 --> 01:08:25,839
and

1855
01:08:28,709 --> 01:08:26,719
uh

1856
01:08:31,189 --> 01:08:28,719
yeah i mean

1857
01:08:33,590 --> 01:08:31,199
that was such a great account directly

1858
01:08:34,390 --> 01:08:33,600
that's that's what i said earlier in the

1859
01:08:37,749 --> 01:08:34,400
show

1860
01:08:39,189 --> 01:08:37,759
there's a percentage of people that

1861
01:08:40,630 --> 01:08:39,199
listen to the show that had something

1862
01:08:42,789 --> 01:08:40,640
incredible happen

1863
01:08:43,910 --> 01:08:42,799
and i want to talk to more of them

1864
01:08:45,189 --> 01:08:43,920
absolutely because

1865
01:08:46,550 --> 01:08:45,199
you know you hear about all these

1866
01:08:48,470 --> 01:08:46,560
sightings but you

1867
01:08:49,749 --> 01:08:48,480
no one's ever heard of that one i think

1868
01:08:52,070 --> 01:08:49,759
those type of

1869
01:08:53,110 --> 01:08:52,080
sightings are very interesting they are

1870
01:08:55,990 --> 01:08:53,120
unique

1871
01:08:58,309 --> 01:08:56,000
well it raises the question too of

1872
01:09:01,110 --> 01:08:58,319
once this becomes a topic that we can

1873
01:09:01,990 --> 01:09:01,120
comfortably talk about in all corners of

1874
01:09:03,269 --> 01:09:02,000
our

1875
01:09:04,870 --> 01:09:03,279
culture

1876
01:09:08,070 --> 01:09:04,880
you know how do we incorporate these

1877
01:09:10,149 --> 01:09:08,080
stories into our into our understanding

1878
01:09:12,630 --> 01:09:10,159
you know so we have these government

1879
01:09:14,070 --> 01:09:12,640
bodies now that are trying to collate

1880
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:14,080
and analyze

1881
01:09:17,990 --> 01:09:16,000
you know these these incidents these

1882
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:18,000
events that have occurred in

1883
01:09:22,309 --> 01:09:20,880
military training areas and so you know

1884
01:09:24,870 --> 01:09:22,319
they're doing that work and they're even

1885
01:09:25,990 --> 01:09:24,880
looking at physiological impacts on

1886
01:09:28,789 --> 01:09:26,000
on our

1887
01:09:31,669 --> 01:09:28,799
but

1888
01:09:34,070 --> 01:09:31,679
once that information is

1889
01:09:35,430 --> 01:09:34,080
comfortably a part of our everyday

1890
01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:35,440
conversation

1891
01:09:39,829 --> 01:09:36,960
well then where do these stories fit

1892
01:09:42,709 --> 01:09:39,839
into that as well right so

1893
01:09:44,789 --> 01:09:42,719
you then have to find a way to

1894
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:44,799
bring these things to the table

1895
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:45,520
to

1896
01:09:51,030 --> 01:09:49,120
them so that we can have a better

1897
01:09:52,630 --> 01:09:51,040
picture of what is going on

1898
01:09:54,229 --> 01:09:52,640
i'm encouraged by the fact that so many

1899
01:09:56,630 --> 01:09:54,239
people have had these stories because i

1900
01:09:59,510 --> 01:09:56,640
really do think that's going to make

1901
01:10:02,550 --> 01:09:59,520
the acceptance and our path to

1902
01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:02,560
understanding a little bit easier

1903
01:10:06,709 --> 01:10:04,960
you know there might be a lot of

1904
01:10:08,229 --> 01:10:06,719
sort of jockeying for control of the

1905
01:10:10,870 --> 01:10:08,239
narrative there

1906
01:10:12,390 --> 01:10:10,880
you know i could see that happening

1907
01:10:13,669 --> 01:10:12,400
because we all know that governments do

1908
01:10:16,709 --> 01:10:13,679
like to

1909
01:10:20,470 --> 01:10:16,719
put their own kind of spin on things

1910
01:10:23,030 --> 01:10:20,480
but i'm hoping that because it is such a

1911
01:10:25,430 --> 01:10:23,040
you know distributed uh phenomenon at

1912
01:10:26,870 --> 01:10:25,440
least seemingly that it'll be difficult

1913
01:10:28,709 --> 01:10:26,880
for them to

1914
01:10:31,750 --> 01:10:28,719
you know kind of tell everyone

1915
01:10:34,229 --> 01:10:31,760
it is x when so many people have had you

1916
01:10:39,350 --> 01:10:34,239
know their own very personal experiences

1917
01:10:42,229 --> 01:10:39,360
right yeah uh you know we we saw in the

1918
01:10:44,470 --> 01:10:42,239
in the hearing basically

1919
01:10:46,149 --> 01:10:44,480
there was a lot of surprises more or

1920
01:10:48,470 --> 01:10:46,159
less of

1921
01:10:49,270 --> 01:10:48,480
things that you know they were unaware

1922
01:10:52,630 --> 01:10:49,280
of

1923
01:10:53,590 --> 01:10:52,640
you know and yeah when it came to

1924
01:10:55,750 --> 01:10:53,600
to me

1925
01:10:59,030 --> 01:10:55,760
you know of course this is a historic

1926
01:11:00,950 --> 01:10:59,040
case but maelstrom air air base when the

1927
01:11:03,189 --> 01:11:00,960
nuclear warheads were shut down

1928
01:11:04,070 --> 01:11:03,199
you know i mean to me them not knowing

1929
01:11:06,390 --> 01:11:04,080
that

1930
01:11:08,390 --> 01:11:06,400
i think is uh you know it was kind of

1931
01:11:10,390 --> 01:11:08,400
surprising yeah

1932
01:11:12,630 --> 01:11:10,400
because that is if that's not national

1933
01:11:15,350 --> 01:11:12,640
security then what is you know a threat

1934
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:15,360
to national security yeah so

1935
01:11:18,470 --> 01:11:16,320
yeah

1936
01:11:20,709 --> 01:11:18,480
and to claim that there was no any sort

1937
01:11:23,189 --> 01:11:20,719
of official report you know

1938
01:11:24,310 --> 01:11:23,199
there clearly were reports uh yes

1939
01:11:26,550 --> 01:11:24,320
mountains of

1940
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:26,560
official government documentation with

1941
01:11:30,229 --> 01:11:28,560
many many reports and incidents that

1942
01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:30,239
should be a part of

1943
01:11:34,470 --> 01:11:32,640
this analysis um and i think we'll get

1944
01:11:36,070 --> 01:11:34,480
there eventually but i agree with you

1945
01:11:39,590 --> 01:11:36,080
martin it was

1946
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:39,600
um disconcerting it's a word uh to hear

1947
01:11:42,550 --> 01:11:40,960
that they had not heard of that and that

1948
01:11:43,510 --> 01:11:42,560
they'll look into it that they'll you

1949
01:11:45,189 --> 01:11:43,520
know

1950
01:11:47,590 --> 01:11:45,199
i i should hope so

1951
01:11:50,390 --> 01:11:47,600
yeah yeah i mean there are so many cases

1952
01:11:51,910 --> 01:11:50,400
that happen but in particular that one

1953
01:11:52,709 --> 01:11:51,920
in particular that they didn't know

1954
01:11:55,110 --> 01:11:52,719
about

1955
01:11:57,510 --> 01:11:55,120
i mean that

1956
01:11:59,669 --> 01:11:57,520
that is totally uh

1957
01:12:02,790 --> 01:11:59,679
something that they should be

1958
01:12:04,709 --> 01:12:02,800
looking into you know i mean it's just

1959
01:12:06,310 --> 01:12:04,719
the fact that those things could be shut

1960
01:12:07,830 --> 01:12:06,320
down and they have i don't know if you

1961
01:12:09,990 --> 01:12:07,840
know any of the details to them but they

1962
01:12:11,910 --> 01:12:10,000
were all independently operated

1963
01:12:13,830 --> 01:12:11,920
and there was no central location where

1964
01:12:16,310 --> 01:12:13,840
they could have been taken down

1965
01:12:18,470 --> 01:12:16,320
all ten of them the way they were right

1966
01:12:19,270 --> 01:12:18,480
so they were all independent it's a big

1967
01:12:23,910 --> 01:12:19,280
deal

1968
01:12:24,950 --> 01:12:23,920
it's really quite crazy and there was a

1969
01:12:27,669 --> 01:12:24,960
um

1970
01:12:29,990 --> 01:12:27,679
i guess that's coming up on the 21st

1971
01:12:33,430 --> 01:12:30,000
mario woods

1972
01:12:35,990 --> 01:12:33,440
he talks about where they were

1973
01:12:38,709 --> 01:12:36,000
actually activated and they drove a

1974
01:12:41,110 --> 01:12:38,719
truck on top of the

1975
01:12:43,270 --> 01:12:41,120
the doors over the missile head so it

1976
01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:43,280
wouldn't you know and of course you know

1977
01:12:46,950 --> 01:12:44,880
those things are like blown off like

1978
01:12:48,950 --> 01:12:46,960
explosives so they got like a half a

1979
01:12:51,110 --> 01:12:48,960
mile away thinking this thing was just

1980
01:12:54,390 --> 01:12:51,120
to blow and you know that whole thing is

1981
01:12:56,390 --> 01:12:54,400
just totally amazing yeah what a story

1982
01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:56,400
yeah here's another question that came

1983
01:12:59,510 --> 01:12:57,840
up here

1984
01:13:01,990 --> 01:12:59,520
what personal practices would you

1985
01:13:05,189 --> 01:13:02,000
recommend to the ufo community to

1986
01:13:09,189 --> 01:13:05,199
maintain positive mental health while

1987
01:13:10,870 --> 01:13:09,199
while you uh pursue this enigma yeah i

1988
01:13:13,990 --> 01:13:10,880
think that's a good question it is thank

1989
01:13:16,470 --> 01:13:14,000
you tim i know tim he's a good guy um

1990
01:13:19,350 --> 01:13:16,480
so i am very focused on the human

1991
01:13:20,709 --> 01:13:19,360
element here uh and

1992
01:13:23,189 --> 01:13:20,719
to me

1993
01:13:24,630 --> 01:13:23,199
you know regardless of whatever specific

1994
01:13:26,310 --> 01:13:24,640
information

1995
01:13:28,550 --> 01:13:26,320
we may learn

1996
01:13:29,830 --> 01:13:28,560
we still have to deal with our ourselves

1997
01:13:30,790 --> 01:13:29,840
you know we still have to deal with the

1998
01:13:31,590 --> 01:13:30,800
way that

1999
01:13:33,669 --> 01:13:31,600
you know

2000
01:13:35,030 --> 01:13:33,679
we go about our day-to-day and interact

2001
01:13:36,950 --> 01:13:35,040
with people and

2002
01:13:38,709 --> 01:13:36,960
and so for that reason i think you know

2003
01:13:40,149 --> 01:13:38,719
the same advice that i give to someone

2004
01:13:42,070 --> 01:13:40,159
who doesn't believe this at all you know

2005
01:13:43,990 --> 01:13:42,080
and that that is you know spend time

2006
01:13:45,350 --> 01:13:44,000
getting to know yourself

2007
01:13:47,669 --> 01:13:45,360
it doesn't necessarily have to be

2008
01:13:49,510 --> 01:13:47,679
meditation or that's incredibly popular

2009
01:13:51,350 --> 01:13:49,520
you know to take time to meditate i

2010
01:13:53,030 --> 01:13:51,360
don't think you have to do that i just

2011
01:13:55,270 --> 01:13:53,040
think you have to be intentional and

2012
01:13:56,310 --> 01:13:55,280
have to spend time understanding who you

2013
01:13:58,070 --> 01:13:56,320
are and

2014
01:14:01,110 --> 01:13:58,080
the decisions that you've made and what

2015
01:14:03,270 --> 01:14:01,120
your biases are what motivates you

2016
01:14:05,510 --> 01:14:03,280
uh that you need to

2017
01:14:07,350 --> 01:14:05,520
make time for yourself

2018
01:14:08,790 --> 01:14:07,360
and and and take care of those around

2019
01:14:10,149 --> 01:14:08,800
you you know to me that one of the

2020
01:14:12,709 --> 01:14:10,159
greatest things that

2021
01:14:15,110 --> 01:14:12,719
a person can do is to be uh you know a

2022
01:14:16,550 --> 01:14:15,120
servant for another person you know to

2023
01:14:18,550 --> 01:14:16,560
care for someone

2024
01:14:20,229 --> 01:14:18,560
and to be vulnerable with someone i

2025
01:14:22,229 --> 01:14:20,239
think that that's a wonderful thing to

2026
01:14:24,390 --> 01:14:22,239
to be able to do if you don't have that

2027
01:14:26,149 --> 01:14:24,400
opportunity uh i think those

2028
01:14:28,070 --> 01:14:26,159
opportunities exist you know you can

2029
01:14:30,070 --> 01:14:28,080
find you know lots of organizations in

2030
01:14:33,030 --> 01:14:30,080
your community where you can give back

2031
01:14:35,750 --> 01:14:33,040
and and and participate and do some real

2032
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:35,760
tangible good and doing good for others

2033
01:14:39,750 --> 01:14:38,000
i've always found has been good you know

2034
01:14:41,990 --> 01:14:39,760
for for for me

2035
01:14:43,750 --> 01:14:42,000
um so i don't have any you know crazy

2036
01:14:45,189 --> 01:14:43,760
mantras or anything to provide i just

2037
01:14:47,350 --> 01:14:45,199
think that people you know really just

2038
01:14:49,830 --> 01:14:47,360
need to spend time on on the things that

2039
01:14:51,350 --> 01:14:49,840
we know are positive you know take a

2040
01:14:53,990 --> 01:14:51,360
walk

2041
01:14:55,430 --> 01:14:54,000
uh you know get a little exercise

2042
01:14:56,709 --> 01:14:55,440
i don't i don't talk too much you

2043
01:14:59,030 --> 01:14:56,719
brought it up earlier i don't talk too

2044
01:15:01,510 --> 01:14:59,040
much about the abduction

2045
01:15:03,830 --> 01:15:01,520
part of this and not because uh you know

2046
01:15:05,590 --> 01:15:03,840
that i don't believe

2047
01:15:07,750 --> 01:15:05,600
all these people it's it's it's

2048
01:15:09,990 --> 01:15:07,760
confusing and you know

2049
01:15:12,550 --> 01:15:10,000
um

2050
01:15:15,350 --> 01:15:12,560
and some of the commonalities are very

2051
01:15:16,630 --> 01:15:15,360
very interesting to me on what is

2052
01:15:19,669 --> 01:15:16,640
happening but

2053
01:15:23,830 --> 01:15:19,679
you mentioned you know date day by day

2054
01:15:26,470 --> 01:15:23,840
i i could not function if something like

2055
01:15:29,270 --> 01:15:26,480
that was happening yeah i i just could

2056
01:15:31,350 --> 01:15:29,280
not function in society if you mentioned

2057
01:15:33,669 --> 01:15:31,360
uh i believe you said something like in

2058
01:15:35,110 --> 01:15:33,679
the privacy of your own veteran at their

2059
01:15:38,470 --> 01:15:35,120
will you know these things are happening

2060
01:15:40,630 --> 01:15:38,480
whatever it is right uh you know some

2061
01:15:43,510 --> 01:15:40,640
try to pass it off as

2062
01:15:45,030 --> 01:15:43,520
what is it called uh sleep paralysis

2063
01:15:47,110 --> 01:15:45,040
things like that but not every single

2064
01:15:48,310 --> 01:15:47,120
one of them can be because there's

2065
01:15:50,229 --> 01:15:48,320
so many

2066
01:15:52,550 --> 01:15:50,239
times when things happen during the day

2067
01:15:54,229 --> 01:15:52,560
when there was no sleep involved and you

2068
01:15:56,149 --> 01:15:54,239
know uh

2069
01:15:58,229 --> 01:15:56,159
so that that is something you know i

2070
01:16:01,030 --> 01:15:58,239
have a good friend in the film business

2071
01:16:01,830 --> 01:16:01,040
that is uh doing a film on that aspect

2072
01:16:05,350 --> 01:16:01,840
of it

2073
01:16:07,030 --> 01:16:05,360
separate from you know ufos and

2074
01:16:08,950 --> 01:16:07,040
it it really is

2075
01:16:10,310 --> 01:16:08,960
uh it really is something and you know

2076
01:16:13,350 --> 01:16:10,320
it

2077
01:16:15,750 --> 01:16:13,360
throwing this out there and i'm not

2078
01:16:17,189 --> 01:16:15,760
saying that that's what it is but if it

2079
01:16:19,430 --> 01:16:17,199
happened to be something like

2080
01:16:21,750 --> 01:16:19,440
extraterrestrial or wherever someone is

2081
01:16:23,110 --> 01:16:21,760
visiting from

2082
01:16:24,070 --> 01:16:23,120
they're here

2083
01:16:25,990 --> 01:16:24,080
um

2084
01:16:28,149 --> 01:16:26,000
you know they wouldn't just like fly

2085
01:16:30,229 --> 01:16:28,159
over and go away they would want to

2086
01:16:32,229 --> 01:16:30,239
explore i would imagine you know now now

2087
01:16:34,390 --> 01:16:32,239
i'm thinking on human terms again right

2088
01:16:36,070 --> 01:16:34,400
but you know but i would think that

2089
01:16:37,830 --> 01:16:36,080
anyone that's out there exploring to

2090
01:16:40,149 --> 01:16:37,840
begin with is curious

2091
01:16:40,870 --> 01:16:40,159
otherwise why would they be exploring

2092
01:16:43,030 --> 01:16:40,880
so

2093
01:16:44,870 --> 01:16:43,040
uh if they are curious then you know

2094
01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:44,880
perhaps they are

2095
01:16:47,830 --> 01:16:45,760
uh

2096
01:16:49,750 --> 01:16:47,840
tagging and bagging whatever it is that

2097
01:16:52,149 --> 01:16:49,760
they're doing you know maybe

2098
01:16:53,669 --> 01:16:52,159
you know maybe some experimenting or

2099
01:16:57,590 --> 01:16:53,679
something like that yeah it's certainly

2100
01:17:00,149 --> 01:16:57,600
possible i think uh to me i have to uh

2101
01:17:01,830 --> 01:17:00,159
treat these experiences very seriously

2102
01:17:03,669 --> 01:17:01,840
but i don't necessarily have to take

2103
01:17:04,790 --> 01:17:03,679
them literally

2104
01:17:06,870 --> 01:17:04,800
uh

2105
01:17:09,750 --> 01:17:06,880
you know or or even personally have

2106
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:09,760
believe them you know but i do think

2107
01:17:13,830 --> 01:17:12,080
just like in a a counseling situation if

2108
01:17:15,350 --> 01:17:13,840
someone comes to you and they you know

2109
01:17:17,830 --> 01:17:15,360
they explain something very personal

2110
01:17:20,149 --> 01:17:17,840
that has changed the way that they view

2111
01:17:21,350 --> 01:17:20,159
themselves in their life uh and you're

2112
01:17:22,709 --> 01:17:21,360
you're listening to that story and

2113
01:17:24,870 --> 01:17:22,719
you're thinking yeah this is you know

2114
01:17:26,229 --> 01:17:24,880
this is a psychosis of this kind or this

2115
01:17:27,669 --> 01:17:26,239
is they've interpreted this event in

2116
01:17:29,189 --> 01:17:27,679
their life in this way and if they just

2117
01:17:30,550 --> 01:17:29,199
interpret it differently they would

2118
01:17:32,229 --> 01:17:30,560
never have come to this conclusion about

2119
01:17:33,669 --> 01:17:32,239
themselves you know

2120
01:17:35,270 --> 01:17:33,679
i think that it's the same way you know

2121
01:17:36,709 --> 01:17:35,280
when you're listening to someone share

2122
01:17:38,310 --> 01:17:36,719
their experience they're being very

2123
01:17:40,390 --> 01:17:38,320
vulnerable with you as something

2124
01:17:42,070 --> 01:17:40,400
incredibly personal and yeah i think you

2125
01:17:44,070 --> 01:17:42,080
honor that because

2126
01:17:45,430 --> 01:17:44,080
you know how often are people like that

2127
01:17:46,870 --> 01:17:45,440
how often are people going to be that

2128
01:17:48,470 --> 01:17:46,880
genuine with you

2129
01:17:50,070 --> 01:17:48,480
uh about something that is

2130
01:17:52,310 --> 01:17:50,080
really impacting

2131
01:17:53,830 --> 01:17:52,320
who they are you know and so i think you

2132
01:17:56,149 --> 01:17:53,840
should you know sort of validate that

2133
01:17:57,350 --> 01:17:56,159
experience honor that that experience

2134
01:17:58,790 --> 01:17:57,360
yet also

2135
01:18:01,030 --> 01:17:58,800
you know maybe provide a little bit of

2136
01:18:03,510 --> 01:18:01,040
space to help them explore

2137
01:18:05,110 --> 01:18:03,520
what it means you know because there are

2138
01:18:07,590 --> 01:18:05,120
many different interpretations we've

2139
01:18:09,669 --> 01:18:07,600
talked about interpretations quite a lot

2140
01:18:11,350 --> 01:18:09,679
on the show in fact uh

2141
01:18:13,990 --> 01:18:11,360
you know you can have an experience and

2142
01:18:15,830 --> 01:18:14,000
you can interpret it as an angel you can

2143
01:18:18,470 --> 01:18:15,840
have an experience interpret as a demon

2144
01:18:20,470 --> 01:18:18,480
you could you know as an et as a figment

2145
01:18:22,470 --> 01:18:20,480
of your imagination you know all these

2146
01:18:24,550 --> 01:18:22,480
are different interpretations which one

2147
01:18:26,790 --> 01:18:24,560
is factually valid you know i i don't

2148
01:18:28,950 --> 01:18:26,800
know that that answer

2149
01:18:30,870 --> 01:18:28,960
necessarily even matters because it's

2150
01:18:32,870 --> 01:18:30,880
the way that you interpret it that it

2151
01:18:33,990 --> 01:18:32,880
ends up impacting how you go about your

2152
01:18:35,669 --> 01:18:34,000
day-to-day

2153
01:18:37,350 --> 01:18:35,679
you know i'm sure

2154
01:18:38,950 --> 01:18:37,360
i wanted to ask you this martin just

2155
01:18:40,709 --> 01:18:38,960
because i know you've got so much

2156
01:18:42,070 --> 01:18:40,719
experience with this but you know i'm

2157
01:18:44,310 --> 01:18:42,080
sure you've had someone bring you an

2158
01:18:46,550 --> 01:18:44,320
antique and they've they've they've told

2159
01:18:48,709 --> 01:18:46,560
themselves this story about this antique

2160
01:18:50,950 --> 01:18:48,719
you know it came from so and so and it

2161
01:18:52,709 --> 01:18:50,960
means this to me and my family and you

2162
01:18:54,070 --> 01:18:52,719
know it's it's incredibly valuable or

2163
01:18:55,430 --> 01:18:54,080
whatever and you're looking at it you're

2164
01:18:57,189 --> 01:18:55,440
thinking in your mind before you say

2165
01:18:59,510 --> 01:18:57,199
anything to them this is not at all what

2166
01:19:01,030 --> 01:18:59,520
they're telling me it is uh

2167
01:19:02,870 --> 01:19:01,040
constantly that happens how do you

2168
01:19:04,870 --> 01:19:02,880
navigate that how do you kind of well i

2169
01:19:06,950 --> 01:19:04,880
always try to be in a professional and

2170
01:19:08,870 --> 01:19:06,960
kind way yeah but you know i had a very

2171
01:19:09,750 --> 01:19:08,880
interesting happen thing happened when i

2172
01:19:11,750 --> 01:19:09,760
was

2173
01:19:13,430 --> 01:19:11,760
in california working at an appraisal

2174
01:19:14,229 --> 01:19:13,440
clinic in california

2175
01:19:16,790 --> 01:19:14,239
and

2176
01:19:18,550 --> 01:19:16,800
um there's a famous eagle carver in

2177
01:19:19,830 --> 01:19:18,560
kittery maine back where i used to be

2178
01:19:21,750 --> 01:19:19,840
from

2179
01:19:23,430 --> 01:19:21,760
this woman shows up

2180
01:19:25,669 --> 01:19:23,440
and she

2181
01:19:27,430 --> 01:19:25,679
she's in line it's a appraisal clinic

2182
01:19:28,709 --> 01:19:27,440
and it's a garden center and there's

2183
01:19:31,270 --> 01:19:28,719
hundreds of people wanting to know what

2184
01:19:33,189 --> 01:19:31,280
their things were right so someone comes

2185
01:19:35,510 --> 01:19:33,199
running up to me and and

2186
01:19:37,110 --> 01:19:35,520
says oh there's a woman in line we'd

2187
01:19:39,430 --> 01:19:37,120
like to put her right up here right away

2188
01:19:41,510 --> 01:19:39,440
because she has an eagle that belonged

2189
01:19:43,189 --> 01:19:41,520
to george washington

2190
01:19:45,830 --> 01:19:43,199
wow so

2191
01:19:47,590 --> 01:19:45,840
so i kind of like i try to you know i

2192
01:19:49,110 --> 01:19:47,600
chuckle okay you know i mean if

2193
01:19:51,110 --> 01:19:49,120
everything belonged to george washington

2194
01:19:52,790 --> 01:19:51,120
that people said or whatever you know

2195
01:19:55,030 --> 01:19:52,800
okay bring her up

2196
01:19:57,270 --> 01:19:55,040
so she unwraps this eagle that i know

2197
01:19:58,310 --> 01:19:57,280
was carved in the town

2198
01:20:00,310 --> 01:19:58,320
that

2199
01:20:01,910 --> 01:20:00,320
next door to where i live i grew up in

2200
01:20:04,630 --> 01:20:01,920
elliot maine kittery maine is right next

2201
01:20:06,390 --> 01:20:04,640
to it wow so i look at this eagle

2202
01:20:07,189 --> 01:20:06,400
and i did some quick calculating and i

2203
01:20:10,070 --> 01:20:07,199
said

2204
01:20:11,030 --> 01:20:10,080
george washington was dead about 165

2205
01:20:12,950 --> 01:20:11,040
years

2206
01:20:15,270 --> 01:20:12,960
when this was carved

2207
01:20:17,110 --> 01:20:15,280
and i said but the good news is this

2208
01:20:19,510 --> 01:20:17,120
time i had good news i said this is a

2209
01:20:21,830 --> 01:20:19,520
very valuable eagle it's very very

2210
01:20:23,030 --> 01:20:21,840
highly collectible a ten thousand dollar

2211
01:20:26,390 --> 01:20:23,040
eagle you know

2212
01:20:28,470 --> 01:20:26,400
wow at the time um but you know yes that

2213
01:20:30,790 --> 01:20:28,480
does happen all the time there

2214
01:20:32,470 --> 01:20:30,800
what has passed down and what was the

2215
01:20:33,910 --> 01:20:32,480
relevance of that

2216
01:20:36,149 --> 01:20:33,920
you're mentioning these things that are

2217
01:20:37,910 --> 01:20:36,159
passed down when people think that it's

2218
01:20:39,510 --> 01:20:37,920
their experience is something they think

2219
01:20:40,790 --> 01:20:39,520
that happened that may not have happened

2220
01:20:42,629 --> 01:20:40,800
is that what it was

2221
01:20:45,270 --> 01:20:42,639
yeah when we're talking about abductions

2222
01:20:46,870 --> 01:20:45,280
uh you know it can very well shape their

2223
01:20:49,110 --> 01:20:46,880
their life you know their their their

2224
01:20:51,669 --> 01:20:49,120
story of who they are right and just

2225
01:20:53,750 --> 01:20:51,679
like a prized possession like that they

2226
01:20:55,270 --> 01:20:53,760
think it's uh you know came from george

2227
01:20:56,870 --> 01:20:55,280
washington and it was given to their

2228
01:20:58,550 --> 01:20:56,880
grandmother and it made its way to their

2229
01:21:00,709 --> 01:20:58,560
you know all these things that they

2230
01:21:02,470 --> 01:21:00,719
they've concocted or not that they've

2231
01:21:04,550 --> 01:21:02,480
made it up but they've they've inherited

2232
01:21:06,229 --> 01:21:04,560
a story it's probably likely right

2233
01:21:07,990 --> 01:21:06,239
they've been hearing a story and they

2234
01:21:10,070 --> 01:21:08,000
and they they find it to be true and it

2235
01:21:11,189 --> 01:21:10,080
means something to them and maybe means

2236
01:21:14,629 --> 01:21:11,199
quite a lot

2237
01:21:17,030 --> 01:21:14,639
and so when you know that to be you know

2238
01:21:19,189 --> 01:21:17,040
not factually accurate you know

2239
01:21:21,830 --> 01:21:19,199
you have in some ways

2240
01:21:23,750 --> 01:21:21,840
almost a responsibility to guide them

2241
01:21:25,590 --> 01:21:23,760
into the truth

2242
01:21:26,950 --> 01:21:25,600
without being someone that's going to i

2243
01:21:29,110 --> 01:21:26,960
mean you could do it this way you could

2244
01:21:30,870 --> 01:21:29,120
be a person with a sledgehammer and say

2245
01:21:32,950 --> 01:21:30,880
it's not george washington and you're

2246
01:21:35,270 --> 01:21:32,960
you're an idiot you know but i think the

2247
01:21:37,350 --> 01:21:35,280
human thing to do the humane thing to do

2248
01:21:38,870 --> 01:21:37,360
i should say is to you know guide them

2249
01:21:40,470 --> 01:21:38,880
into the truth and to do what you just

2250
01:21:42,310 --> 01:21:40,480
said and i'd say it's not what you

2251
01:21:44,470 --> 01:21:42,320
thought it was but it's still very

2252
01:21:46,070 --> 01:21:44,480
really valuable even it was even if it

2253
01:21:48,629 --> 01:21:46,080
was worthless you know it's not what you

2254
01:21:50,629 --> 01:21:48,639
thought it was but it means a lot to you

2255
01:21:53,110 --> 01:21:50,639
and and that that there is something

2256
01:21:55,189 --> 01:21:53,120
meaningful in that

2257
01:21:57,910 --> 01:21:55,199
yeah yeah and

2258
01:21:59,669 --> 01:21:57,920
you mentioned lucid dreams yes and

2259
01:22:02,470 --> 01:21:59,679
dreams in general you know i mean you

2260
01:22:04,870 --> 01:22:02,480
think of you you hear sometimes like

2261
01:22:07,110 --> 01:22:04,880
uh one of the beatles dreamt something

2262
01:22:09,350 --> 01:22:07,120
that made him create a song right you

2263
01:22:10,790 --> 01:22:09,360
know and uh but

2264
01:22:12,950 --> 01:22:10,800
do you think they

2265
01:22:14,390 --> 01:22:12,960
and i've heard other people i've heard

2266
01:22:17,030 --> 01:22:14,400
several people over the years and

2267
01:22:18,870 --> 01:22:17,040
recently when i was in pine bush talking

2268
01:22:21,590 --> 01:22:18,880
to someone

2269
01:22:23,669 --> 01:22:21,600
and she seemed like she almost had like

2270
01:22:26,229 --> 01:22:23,679
an experience but she said that might

2271
01:22:28,790 --> 01:22:26,239
have been a dream and i had

2272
01:22:29,750 --> 01:22:28,800
someone else tell me that years ago

2273
01:22:31,590 --> 01:22:29,760
that

2274
01:22:33,590 --> 01:22:31,600
it was an encounter

2275
01:22:35,750 --> 01:22:33,600
but it was so real and it might have

2276
01:22:36,550 --> 01:22:35,760
been a dream and then another person

2277
01:22:42,149 --> 01:22:36,560
that

2278
01:22:43,830 --> 01:22:42,159
happen

2279
01:22:46,790 --> 01:22:43,840
and she's going to know what to do when

2280
01:22:49,350 --> 01:22:46,800
it happens yeah right now she doesn't

2281
01:22:52,629 --> 01:22:49,360
know what it is but she will know right

2282
01:22:54,950 --> 01:22:52,639
you know like from beings this was a

2283
01:22:56,390 --> 01:22:54,960
really strong

2284
01:22:58,870 --> 01:22:56,400
dream right

2285
01:23:01,590 --> 01:22:58,880
and and you know well i i mean to me

2286
01:23:03,910 --> 01:23:01,600
dreams are fascinating um just like a

2287
01:23:05,669 --> 01:23:03,920
near-death experience is a fascinating

2288
01:23:07,750 --> 01:23:05,679
experience this is something that

2289
01:23:09,270 --> 01:23:07,760
feels more real than real that's the

2290
01:23:12,390 --> 01:23:09,280
phrase you often hear them use is it

2291
01:23:14,070 --> 01:23:12,400
feels more real than real um and i have

2292
01:23:16,390 --> 01:23:14,080
a friend who's done a lot of

2293
01:23:18,550 --> 01:23:16,400
experimentation with lucid dreaming he's

2294
01:23:20,390 --> 01:23:18,560
you know he's tried to kind of explore

2295
01:23:23,350 --> 01:23:20,400
believe it or not you can do things to

2296
01:23:25,510 --> 01:23:23,360
kind of induce lucid dreaming uh i have

2297
01:23:27,590 --> 01:23:25,520
not yeah i'm not good i got hallucinogen

2298
01:23:29,110 --> 01:23:27,600
or something uh no there's um there are

2299
01:23:31,189 --> 01:23:29,120
certain kind of uh

2300
01:23:33,669 --> 01:23:31,199
practices that you can follow uh that

2301
01:23:35,669 --> 01:23:33,679
will kind of get you into a state where

2302
01:23:38,310 --> 01:23:35,679
it may be more likely to occur now some

2303
01:23:39,750 --> 01:23:38,320
people lucid dreaming happens

2304
01:23:40,950 --> 01:23:39,760
very frequently there are some people

2305
01:23:43,350 --> 01:23:40,960
it's a smaller percentage of the

2306
01:23:46,229 --> 01:23:43,360
population but they lucid dream often

2307
01:23:48,790 --> 01:23:46,239
but others can be taught to lucid dream

2308
01:23:50,629 --> 01:23:48,800
more regularly and then there are

2309
01:23:53,830 --> 01:23:50,639
there is a chemical supplement that you

2310
01:23:55,669 --> 01:23:53,840
can take um you can get on on amazon

2311
01:23:57,350 --> 01:23:55,679
that uh yeah

2312
01:23:59,830 --> 01:23:57,360
what can't you get on amazon but if you

2313
01:24:02,629 --> 01:23:59,840
take it um you know supposedly it makes

2314
01:24:03,910 --> 01:24:02,639
the likelihood of having a lucid dream

2315
01:24:07,189 --> 01:24:03,920
a lot higher

2316
01:24:09,270 --> 01:24:07,199
um and so anyway his uh experience that

2317
01:24:11,590 --> 01:24:09,280
he he recounts to me

2318
01:24:15,350 --> 01:24:11,600
is uh he had to lucid dream and

2319
01:24:16,390 --> 01:24:15,360
everything was incredibly real um and

2320
01:24:19,590 --> 01:24:16,400
he

2321
01:24:22,229 --> 01:24:19,600
a schoolyard or a school building with a

2322
01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:22,239
brick you know facade and there was a

2323
01:24:26,149 --> 01:24:24,480
grassy field and you know in his dream

2324
01:24:27,990 --> 01:24:26,159
he takes his hand and he rubs it along

2325
01:24:29,669 --> 01:24:28,000
the brick and he feels where it's

2326
01:24:31,510 --> 01:24:29,679
tearing the skin and he

2327
01:24:33,750 --> 01:24:31,520
examines the grass and you know you can

2328
01:24:35,830 --> 01:24:33,760
see the individual blades of grass and

2329
01:24:39,110 --> 01:24:35,840
it it feels very very real but none of

2330
01:24:40,790 --> 01:24:39,120
that's happening in his waking state you

2331
01:24:43,030 --> 01:24:40,800
know so to me

2332
01:24:44,950 --> 01:24:43,040
it it's it's sort of a signpost it's one

2333
01:24:46,629 --> 01:24:44,960
signpost among many you know a

2334
01:24:48,550 --> 01:24:46,639
near-death experience is another one you

2335
01:24:51,270 --> 01:24:48,560
can listen to uh one recently that i

2336
01:24:53,110 --> 01:24:51,280
found great was uh dr eben alexander's

2337
01:24:55,110 --> 01:24:53,120
near-death experience

2338
01:24:57,030 --> 01:24:55,120
here's someone who has no mental

2339
01:24:58,870 --> 01:24:57,040
activity happening at all and there's so

2340
01:25:00,709 --> 01:24:58,880
many examples of near-death experiences

2341
01:25:02,149 --> 01:25:00,719
you know you could just youtube them and

2342
01:25:04,310 --> 01:25:02,159
see a ton of them but you know people

2343
01:25:05,990 --> 01:25:04,320
who are comatose or no brain activity

2344
01:25:08,149 --> 01:25:06,000
yet they recount these

2345
01:25:09,910 --> 01:25:08,159
incredibly rich and detailed experiences

2346
01:25:10,950 --> 01:25:09,920
so what is taking place there you know

2347
01:25:17,990 --> 01:25:10,960
what

2348
01:25:19,750 --> 01:25:18,000
and and that to me also points to

2349
01:25:21,590 --> 01:25:19,760
the experiences that we have in waking

2350
01:25:23,110 --> 01:25:21,600
state you know we just assume that

2351
01:25:25,750 --> 01:25:23,120
because we're all awake what we're

2352
01:25:28,229 --> 01:25:25,760
experiencing is you know is real we call

2353
01:25:30,229 --> 01:25:28,239
that real and we call the dreaming state

2354
01:25:32,229 --> 01:25:30,239
imaginary you know these are interesting

2355
01:25:34,950 --> 01:25:32,239
distinctions that we have kind of just

2356
01:25:36,070 --> 01:25:34,960
arbitrarily drawn in a way on our human

2357
01:25:37,990 --> 01:25:36,080
experience

2358
01:25:40,629 --> 01:25:38,000
um and and think of how many people i

2359
01:25:42,709 --> 01:25:40,639
mean i'll go put myself out there as one

2360
01:25:44,070 --> 01:25:42,719
who have had a dream that has changed

2361
01:25:45,830 --> 01:25:44,080
their their life you know some people

2362
01:25:47,350 --> 01:25:45,840
have had dreams that you know you have a

2363
01:25:48,950 --> 01:25:47,360
premonition and you don't you know you

2364
01:25:50,709 --> 01:25:48,960
don't take the drive you're going to

2365
01:25:51,830 --> 01:25:50,719
take the next day and if you've taken it

2366
01:25:53,910 --> 01:25:51,840
you would have been in an accident you

2367
01:25:56,870 --> 01:25:53,920
know all kinds of different examples for

2368
01:25:58,709 --> 01:25:56,880
me uh when i was a lot younger i had a

2369
01:26:00,070 --> 01:25:58,719
dream that was

2370
01:26:01,990 --> 01:26:00,080
the most vivid dream i've had in my

2371
01:26:03,910 --> 01:26:02,000
entire life and it was uh

2372
01:26:05,990 --> 01:26:03,920
i met with uh

2373
01:26:08,149 --> 01:26:06,000
what i would basically consider to be

2374
01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:08,159
like a wise and old person you know at

2375
01:26:11,510 --> 01:26:09,840
the top of the world and

2376
01:26:13,350 --> 01:26:11,520
essentially they told me that the world

2377
01:26:16,070 --> 01:26:13,360
was ending and then i was transported to

2378
01:26:17,590 --> 01:26:16,080
the uh to the shoreline

2379
01:26:19,669 --> 01:26:17,600
and uh

2380
01:26:22,709 --> 01:26:19,679
the the ocean had receded

2381
01:26:24,870 --> 01:26:22,719
it basically receded from the shore and

2382
01:26:26,550 --> 01:26:24,880
you could see you know kind of the

2383
01:26:28,149 --> 01:26:26,560
the debris and everything that was on

2384
01:26:29,990 --> 01:26:28,159
the at the bottom of the ocean and there

2385
01:26:31,669 --> 01:26:30,000
were these um

2386
01:26:33,910 --> 01:26:31,679
like gigantic

2387
01:26:36,790 --> 01:26:33,920
rings that kind of formed uh almost like

2388
01:26:39,590 --> 01:26:36,800
a tunnel path going into this the depth

2389
01:26:42,070 --> 01:26:39,600
of what was once the ocean in the sky

2390
01:26:43,510 --> 01:26:42,080
there were these swirling orbs you know

2391
01:26:46,229 --> 01:26:43,520
and at the time i wouldn't even used

2392
01:26:48,310 --> 01:26:46,239
orbs because i wasn't as into ufos as i

2393
01:26:51,590 --> 01:26:48,320
am now i just they were just swirling

2394
01:26:54,229 --> 01:26:51,600
balls of light in the sky and i started

2395
01:26:55,270 --> 01:26:54,239
to i felt a compulsion to walk down this

2396
01:26:57,350 --> 01:26:55,280
tunnel

2397
01:26:59,270 --> 01:26:57,360
uh and to go down into these rings into

2398
01:27:00,470 --> 01:26:59,280
this into the depths here and then as

2399
01:27:02,310 --> 01:27:00,480
i'm walking

2400
01:27:04,629 --> 01:27:02,320
i hear this voice behind me and i turn

2401
01:27:06,229 --> 01:27:04,639
around and it's it's this woman

2402
01:27:07,590 --> 01:27:06,239
and uh she's saying you can't you can't

2403
01:27:09,910 --> 01:27:07,600
go you gotta you gotta come back you

2404
01:27:11,830 --> 01:27:09,920
gotta come back and and i say well

2405
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:11,840
you're right i mean it's like i think

2406
01:27:15,669 --> 01:27:13,840
she shakes me out of my you know sort of

2407
01:27:19,270 --> 01:27:15,679
trance in a way and i come back to the

2408
01:27:20,629 --> 01:27:19,280
shore and that woman is my wife so uh

2409
01:27:22,870 --> 01:27:20,639
she wasn't my wife at the time but she

2410
01:27:23,750 --> 01:27:22,880
was my wife now so that dream in a way

2411
01:27:25,189 --> 01:27:23,760
kind of

2412
01:27:27,189 --> 01:27:25,199
you know if you can interpret it many

2413
01:27:29,350 --> 01:27:27,199
different ways and i have you know so

2414
01:27:32,550 --> 01:27:29,360
but it was for me kind of validation

2415
01:27:34,070 --> 01:27:32,560
that i needed to be with her um so would

2416
01:27:36,310 --> 01:27:34,080
you tell her you're the girl in my

2417
01:27:37,830 --> 01:27:36,320
dreams i do i have i've used that many

2418
01:27:39,750 --> 01:27:37,840
times right it's a great one it's a good

2419
01:27:41,189 --> 01:27:39,760
line yeah it worked i recommend it it

2420
01:27:43,430 --> 01:27:41,199
did work yeah it did work it worked

2421
01:27:46,390 --> 01:27:43,440
you're married you're hitched exactly

2422
01:27:48,790 --> 01:27:46,400
yeah i'm gonna run a quick uh minute um

2423
01:27:50,149 --> 01:27:48,800
this commercial and it's for two friends

2424
01:27:51,510 --> 01:27:50,159
of the show

2425
01:27:53,990 --> 01:27:51,520
and it's they both have books and here

2426
01:27:56,709 --> 01:27:54,000
we go the believer is the chilling true

2427
01:27:58,950 --> 01:27:56,719
story of dr john mack a renowned harvard

2428
01:28:01,510 --> 01:27:58,960
psychiatrist and pulitzer prize winner

2429
01:28:04,229 --> 01:28:01,520
this is a outreach program from the

2430
01:28:06,629 --> 01:28:04,239
cosmos to the consciously impaired he

2431
01:28:08,390 --> 01:28:06,639
risked it all to investigate human

2432
01:28:09,590 --> 01:28:08,400
encounters with alia

2433
01:28:12,229 --> 01:28:09,600
the believer

2434
01:28:14,470 --> 01:28:12,239
alien encounters hard science and the

2435
01:28:16,390 --> 01:28:14,480
passion of john mack written by

2436
01:28:18,709 --> 01:28:16,400
award-winning former new york times

2437
01:28:20,709 --> 01:28:18,719
journalist and author ralph blumenthal

2438
01:28:27,350 --> 01:28:20,719
now available in paperback from high

2439
01:28:33,669 --> 01:28:31,189
available june 2022 from flying disc

2440
01:28:36,550 --> 01:28:35,510
a book about the people involved in the

2441
01:28:38,070 --> 01:28:36,560
mystery

2442
01:28:39,669 --> 01:28:38,080
covering the golden age of flying

2443
01:28:43,350 --> 01:28:39,679
saucers

2444
01:28:45,510 --> 01:28:43,360
using newsletters magazines case files

2445
01:28:47,510 --> 01:28:45,520
official documents and more

2446
01:28:48,709 --> 01:28:47,520
sure to leave even the die hard skeptic

2447
01:28:51,750 --> 01:28:48,719
wandering

2448
01:28:54,470 --> 01:28:51,760
by charles lehrer new york usa

2449
01:28:58,229 --> 01:28:54,480
the flying saucer investigators

2450
01:29:01,030 --> 01:28:58,239
available on amazon from june 2022

2451
01:29:03,750 --> 01:29:01,040
the flying saucer investigators flying

2452
01:29:07,030 --> 01:29:05,189
i love playing that commercial for

2453
01:29:09,830 --> 01:29:07,040
charles because he has

2454
01:29:10,910 --> 01:29:09,840
written blogs for this um for this

2455
01:29:12,709 --> 01:29:10,920
website

2456
01:29:15,910 --> 01:29:12,719
podcastufo.com

2457
01:29:18,390 --> 01:29:15,920
for i believe four years and he's done

2458
01:29:20,470 --> 01:29:18,400
incredible investigating himself and

2459
01:29:23,510 --> 01:29:20,480
he's worked right out of dave marlar's

2460
01:29:25,910 --> 01:29:23,520
uh archives out in new mexico and he's

2461
01:29:27,750 --> 01:29:25,920
worked through several other archives

2462
01:29:30,870 --> 01:29:27,760
really does some great research

2463
01:29:32,950 --> 01:29:30,880
and he finds some really crazy stories i

2464
01:29:34,390 --> 01:29:32,960
love hearing these stories for the first

2465
01:29:36,149 --> 01:29:34,400
for the first time

2466
01:29:38,070 --> 01:29:36,159
fantastic yeah well i wanted to

2467
01:29:39,189 --> 01:29:38,080
congratulate you martin i did i wanted

2468
01:29:40,870 --> 01:29:39,199
to do at the top of the show and i

2469
01:29:43,669 --> 01:29:40,880
forgot but i wanted to congratulate you

2470
01:29:47,189 --> 01:29:43,679
on over 10 years of shows and over 500

2471
01:29:49,430 --> 01:29:47,199
episodes uh it's absolutely amazing i

2472
01:29:50,470 --> 01:29:49,440
have done about 50 shows in total if you

2473
01:29:52,709 --> 01:29:50,480
think about all the different things

2474
01:29:54,870 --> 01:29:52,719
i've done and it's a lot of work i know

2475
01:29:56,870 --> 01:29:54,880
how much goes into that and uh i just

2476
01:29:58,149 --> 01:29:56,880
want to say that i really appreciate the

2477
01:30:00,550 --> 01:29:58,159
things that you've done

2478
01:30:02,790 --> 01:30:00,560
for this topic and community and um and

2479
01:30:04,149 --> 01:30:02,800
i'm honored that you invited me to talk

2480
01:30:06,790 --> 01:30:04,159
with you i i wanted to ask you a

2481
01:30:08,310 --> 01:30:06,800
question too uh of all the interviews

2482
01:30:09,669 --> 01:30:08,320
that you've done i mean and you've

2483
01:30:10,629 --> 01:30:09,679
interviewed so many different kinds of

2484
01:30:11,590 --> 01:30:10,639
people

2485
01:30:13,990 --> 01:30:11,600
um

2486
01:30:15,430 --> 01:30:14,000
is there any common characteristic that

2487
01:30:17,830 --> 01:30:15,440
you could point to in terms of what

2488
01:30:19,189 --> 01:30:17,840
draws people to this topic like

2489
01:30:21,510 --> 01:30:19,199
is there anything at all or is it

2490
01:30:23,110 --> 01:30:21,520
literally just it's just everybody and

2491
01:30:25,430 --> 01:30:23,120
everyone who's interested in this and

2492
01:30:27,750 --> 01:30:25,440
they find their way to it i i think i

2493
01:30:29,110 --> 01:30:27,760
think that's it it's uh because there's

2494
01:30:30,629 --> 01:30:29,120
so many different

2495
01:30:33,110 --> 01:30:30,639
ways that people

2496
01:30:35,189 --> 01:30:33,120
get involved in this a lot of times it

2497
01:30:36,950 --> 01:30:35,199
is because of a sighting that happened

2498
01:30:38,470 --> 01:30:36,960
to them that they couldn't explain an

2499
01:30:40,310 --> 01:30:38,480
impact of their life

2500
01:30:42,470 --> 01:30:40,320
but not always

2501
01:30:44,870 --> 01:30:42,480
a lot of times you know like you said in

2502
01:30:47,510 --> 01:30:44,880
the 80s you loved watching was it star

2503
01:30:49,270 --> 01:30:47,520
wars star trek well both yeah yeah both

2504
01:30:50,550 --> 01:30:49,280
and you know maybe it was something like

2505
01:30:52,629 --> 01:30:50,560
that that

2506
01:30:54,550 --> 01:30:52,639
sparks an interest well

2507
01:30:56,550 --> 01:30:54,560
you know maybe there's more to it than

2508
01:30:57,590 --> 01:30:56,560
you know maybe there's really something

2509
01:31:00,070 --> 01:30:57,600
to this

2510
01:31:03,590 --> 01:31:00,080
uh type of thing so i would say what

2511
01:31:05,270 --> 01:31:03,600
i've seen is is all all different ways

2512
01:31:08,070 --> 01:31:05,280
that people have

2513
01:31:09,590 --> 01:31:08,080
got into it and the funny thing is when

2514
01:31:11,990 --> 01:31:09,600
i asked stan freeman i mentioned him

2515
01:31:14,229 --> 01:31:12,000
earlier when i asked him what got him

2516
01:31:16,870 --> 01:31:14,239
interested in the topic to begin with

2517
01:31:20,629 --> 01:31:16,880
was uh he said it's because he was cheap

2518
01:31:22,229 --> 01:31:20,639
and uh he was in school in uh in grade

2519
01:31:24,950 --> 01:31:22,239
school i think he said

2520
01:31:27,910 --> 01:31:24,960
and that he was ordering books from the

2521
01:31:29,590 --> 01:31:27,920
book club and he needed to order one

2522
01:31:31,350 --> 01:31:29,600
more book and for a dollar more there

2523
01:31:33,430 --> 01:31:31,360
was one on ufos

2524
01:31:35,110 --> 01:31:33,440
and that that was how he got into the

2525
01:31:37,669 --> 01:31:35,120
topic all the way back then when he was

2526
01:31:39,270 --> 01:31:37,679
that young and went on to you know be a

2527
01:31:42,629 --> 01:31:39,280
nuclear physicist

2528
01:31:45,350 --> 01:31:42,639
so before he jumped out of that and did

2529
01:31:47,430 --> 01:31:45,360
you know over 500 lectures all over the

2530
01:31:49,430 --> 01:31:47,440
all over the world it's incredible i

2531
01:31:51,590 --> 01:31:49,440
mean how do you make sense of

2532
01:31:54,149 --> 01:31:51,600
an event like that that's so

2533
01:31:56,070 --> 01:31:54,159
mundane you know literally transforming

2534
01:31:58,310 --> 01:31:56,080
a person's life and you know

2535
01:32:00,229 --> 01:31:58,320
characterizing their life's work it's

2536
01:32:02,629 --> 01:32:00,239
incredible it's one of the things i

2537
01:32:05,270 --> 01:32:02,639
always ask people when they're when they

2538
01:32:07,030 --> 01:32:05,280
come on the show and i asked you tonight

2539
01:32:09,110 --> 01:32:07,040
you know what got you interested in the

2540
01:32:11,030 --> 01:32:09,120
topic because you never know what you're

2541
01:32:13,669 --> 01:32:11,040
going to hear and

2542
01:32:16,149 --> 01:32:13,679
you know how someone actually did

2543
01:32:18,390 --> 01:32:16,159
and you know sometimes it's a fantastic

2544
01:32:20,149 --> 01:32:18,400
story sometimes it's just

2545
01:32:23,030 --> 01:32:20,159
sometimes they don't really know you

2546
01:32:23,830 --> 01:32:23,040
know exactly how what led them here yeah

2547
01:32:25,910 --> 01:32:23,840
you know

2548
01:32:28,229 --> 01:32:25,920
but it's it is it is always interesting

2549
01:32:30,790 --> 01:32:28,239
as we go along we've got uh we've got

2550
01:32:32,709 --> 01:32:30,800
about let's see about 15

2551
01:32:35,270 --> 01:32:32,719
15 or 16 minutes

2552
01:32:37,510 --> 01:32:35,280
left um so can you talk a little bit

2553
01:32:39,110 --> 01:32:37,520
about what you do on these shows that

2554
01:32:41,189 --> 01:32:39,120
you have you have two different shows

2555
01:32:42,950 --> 01:32:41,199
that's right are you co-hosted with both

2556
01:32:45,590 --> 01:32:42,960
of those shows i am

2557
01:32:47,669 --> 01:32:45,600
yeah and so can you talk about what what

2558
01:32:49,590 --> 01:32:47,679
you explore in those sure absolutely i'd

2559
01:32:51,990 --> 01:32:49,600
love to so uh

2560
01:32:53,910 --> 01:32:52,000
the show that i got started on is called

2561
01:32:54,950 --> 01:32:53,920
calling all beings and i got into that

2562
01:32:56,550 --> 01:32:54,960
show

2563
01:32:58,070 --> 01:32:56,560
in a way by accident

2564
01:33:01,350 --> 01:32:58,080
um

2565
01:33:04,070 --> 01:33:01,360
i'm a fan of uh another podcast called

2566
01:33:05,910 --> 01:33:04,080
that ufo podcast it's uh in the uk and

2567
01:33:07,750 --> 01:33:05,920
it's oh yeah hosted by andy mcgrill and

2568
01:33:10,470 --> 01:33:07,760
you've probably heard of yeah and so i'm

2569
01:33:12,550 --> 01:33:10,480
a supporter of that show and andy uh

2570
01:33:15,270 --> 01:33:12,560
just like yourself has done a great job

2571
01:33:17,910 --> 01:33:15,280
of you know listening to his audience

2572
01:33:19,990 --> 01:33:17,920
and incorporating an audience feedback

2573
01:33:21,510 --> 01:33:20,000
and stories into in his into his

2574
01:33:23,750 --> 01:33:21,520
productions and

2575
01:33:25,350 --> 01:33:23,760
he did some shows uh called listener

2576
01:33:27,270 --> 01:33:25,360
questions so i would call in a couple of

2577
01:33:29,430 --> 01:33:27,280
times and you know ask some questions

2578
01:33:31,110 --> 01:33:29,440
and this was last year

2579
01:33:32,709 --> 01:33:31,120
and uh just get into conversation with

2580
01:33:33,830 --> 01:33:32,719
andy i wanted to talk about this with

2581
01:33:35,030 --> 01:33:33,840
somebody because i was just so

2582
01:33:38,709 --> 01:33:35,040
interested

2583
01:33:41,030 --> 01:33:38,719
and uh through that interaction uh you

2584
01:33:43,669 --> 01:33:41,040
know andy introduced me to

2585
01:33:46,310 --> 01:33:43,679
uh another gentleman who had a podcast

2586
01:33:47,910 --> 01:33:46,320
totally unrelated to ufos his podcast

2587
01:33:51,110 --> 01:33:47,920
was on

2588
01:33:53,430 --> 01:33:51,120
the nba and mma so completely unrelated

2589
01:33:56,390 --> 01:33:53,440
just yeah but he he was in the air force

2590
01:33:57,910 --> 01:33:56,400
and he was a flight engineer uh in the

2591
01:34:01,189 --> 01:33:57,920
air force and and

2592
01:34:04,310 --> 01:34:01,199
on in involved with special operations

2593
01:34:05,350 --> 01:34:04,320
and he and i our paths crossed through

2594
01:34:06,790 --> 01:34:05,360
andy

2595
01:34:08,870 --> 01:34:06,800
and because he was getting into the

2596
01:34:10,229 --> 01:34:08,880
topic at the same time he said you know

2597
01:34:11,510 --> 01:34:10,239
why don't we just uh if you're

2598
01:34:13,669 --> 01:34:11,520
interested why don't we just partner up

2599
01:34:15,669 --> 01:34:13,679
and like let's do a podcast i said well

2600
01:34:17,350 --> 01:34:15,679
you know i'm interested in this i'd like

2601
01:34:18,950 --> 01:34:17,360
to to do that and

2602
01:34:20,709 --> 01:34:18,960
engage with it more directly so let's

2603
01:34:21,830 --> 01:34:20,719
give it a try so we started calling all

2604
01:34:24,310 --> 01:34:21,840
beings

2605
01:34:25,350 --> 01:34:24,320
and that's then morphed into a show that

2606
01:34:27,270 --> 01:34:25,360
now has

2607
01:34:29,830 --> 01:34:27,280
i think we have a total of five uh

2608
01:34:32,629 --> 01:34:29,840
panelists uh we have a couple therapists

2609
01:34:34,790 --> 01:34:32,639
uh on the show we have uh an experiencer

2610
01:34:36,790 --> 01:34:34,800
on the show and so we bring on guests

2611
01:34:38,629 --> 01:34:36,800
and we interview them and we kind of go

2612
01:34:40,390 --> 01:34:38,639
you know roundtable and ask different

2613
01:34:42,709 --> 01:34:40,400
questions from our own different

2614
01:34:45,030 --> 01:34:42,719
perspectives uh we we cut up a little

2615
01:34:46,870 --> 01:34:45,040
bit it's got a little bit of humor uh

2616
01:34:49,189 --> 01:34:46,880
calling all beings is kind of it's a

2617
01:34:51,590 --> 01:34:49,199
very community focused show

2618
01:34:53,910 --> 01:34:51,600
i have a a real heart for

2619
01:34:57,030 --> 01:34:53,920
you know trying to build communities uh

2620
01:34:59,430 --> 01:34:57,040
wherever i find myself um i'm a person

2621
01:35:01,510 --> 01:34:59,440
that wants to be you know positive and

2622
01:35:03,830 --> 01:35:01,520
encouraging and uplifting and

2623
01:35:06,310 --> 01:35:03,840
and uh and validate people wherever they

2624
01:35:08,390 --> 01:35:06,320
may be uh i'm not into doing a show that

2625
01:35:11,350 --> 01:35:08,400
it's uh you know kind of sniping at

2626
01:35:13,030 --> 01:35:11,360
other people's content or uh you know

2627
01:35:15,109 --> 01:35:13,040
being down on everything that somebody

2628
01:35:17,270 --> 01:35:15,119
says i just want to listen to people and

2629
01:35:19,750 --> 01:35:17,280
have good conversation so calling all

2630
01:35:22,070 --> 01:35:19,760
beings is really focused on i think that

2631
01:35:24,709 --> 01:35:22,080
particular aspect

2632
01:35:26,709 --> 01:35:24,719
on the other show that i co-host uh it's

2633
01:35:28,709 --> 01:35:26,719
called liminal frames and you spell

2634
01:35:31,750 --> 01:35:28,719
frames with a ph so that comes from the

2635
01:35:33,990 --> 01:35:31,760
phenomenon so liminal frames

2636
01:35:37,830 --> 01:35:34,000
uh liminal frames is uh a totally

2637
01:35:40,709 --> 01:35:37,840
different animal um my co-host is his

2638
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:40,719
name is exo academian so he's totally

2639
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:42,400
synonymous uh you know talk about

2640
01:35:46,709 --> 01:35:44,400
anonymity he's uh i don't you know most

2641
01:35:48,470 --> 01:35:46,719
people don't know anything about him um

2642
01:35:52,149 --> 01:35:48,480
other than his pseudonym

2643
01:35:53,830 --> 01:35:52,159
um but it just so happens that uh

2644
01:35:55,350 --> 01:35:53,840
i'm a fan of his show it's called point

2645
01:35:57,109 --> 01:35:55,360
of convergence

2646
01:35:59,350 --> 01:35:57,119
and uh one day while i'm listening to

2647
01:36:01,750 --> 01:35:59,360
the show you know he kind of signs off

2648
01:36:03,109 --> 01:36:01,760
at the end and says i'm you know

2649
01:36:04,229 --> 01:36:03,119
doing the show from the blue ridge

2650
01:36:05,750 --> 01:36:04,239
mountains and i'm thinking to myself

2651
01:36:07,350 --> 01:36:05,760
well i'm in the blue ridge mountains you

2652
01:36:10,149 --> 01:36:07,360
know like i gotta find this guy how do i

2653
01:36:13,109 --> 01:36:10,159
find this guy so i sent him an email and

2654
01:36:15,350 --> 01:36:13,119
uh eventually our our paths cross and

2655
01:36:17,430 --> 01:36:15,360
and we meet up and and we decide that

2656
01:36:20,149 --> 01:36:17,440
we're going to do a kind of a joint show

2657
01:36:21,669 --> 01:36:20,159
together which is liminal frame so we do

2658
01:36:25,030 --> 01:36:21,679
that show every other week and it's

2659
01:36:26,870 --> 01:36:25,040
published on his exo academian youtube

2660
01:36:28,870 --> 01:36:26,880
channel but but what we're doing there

2661
01:36:31,910 --> 01:36:28,880
is we're really trying to

2662
01:36:33,910 --> 01:36:31,920
go through aspects of the phenomenon of

2663
01:36:34,950 --> 01:36:33,920
uf the ufo

2664
01:36:36,790 --> 01:36:34,960
topic

2665
01:36:39,750 --> 01:36:36,800
and explore those things from a lot of

2666
01:36:41,189 --> 01:36:39,760
different angles um you know we again

2667
01:36:43,350 --> 01:36:41,199
i'm coming back to this notion of

2668
01:36:45,189 --> 01:36:43,360
interpretation right and so

2669
01:36:46,310 --> 01:36:45,199
there are many ways that we can

2670
01:36:47,990 --> 01:36:46,320
interpret

2671
01:36:50,070 --> 01:36:48,000
the things that are happening and things

2672
01:36:52,070 --> 01:36:50,080
we hear about happening in this in this

2673
01:36:55,910 --> 01:36:52,080
topic and we think that it's really

2674
01:36:58,470 --> 01:36:55,920
important for uh people to be able to

2675
01:37:01,830 --> 01:36:58,480
kind of keep in their tools toolkit and

2676
01:37:03,109 --> 01:37:01,840
the the ability to to hold out

2677
01:37:05,189 --> 01:37:03,119
you know one of these

2678
01:37:07,669 --> 01:37:05,199
experiences or incidents or whatever and

2679
01:37:09,750 --> 01:37:07,679
examine it from different aspects so we

2680
01:37:11,510 --> 01:37:09,760
really work hard on that show to take

2681
01:37:13,910 --> 01:37:11,520
things that are familiar to folks who

2682
01:37:15,750 --> 01:37:13,920
are into this topic but you know kind of

2683
01:37:17,910 --> 01:37:15,760
move them around and look at them from

2684
01:37:20,870 --> 01:37:17,920
different perspectives and and and kind

2685
01:37:23,270 --> 01:37:20,880
of find some validity in each of those

2686
01:37:24,229 --> 01:37:23,280
perspectives we find that

2687
01:37:25,910 --> 01:37:24,239
you can

2688
01:37:28,149 --> 01:37:25,920
gain a greater understanding of what

2689
01:37:29,750 --> 01:37:28,159
what's going on if you if you're

2690
01:37:31,910 --> 01:37:29,760
brave enough to ask those different

2691
01:37:35,109 --> 01:37:31,920
questions and and sit with what those

2692
01:37:37,109 --> 01:37:35,119
different conclusions might be uh so

2693
01:37:39,109 --> 01:37:37,119
you know if you're into you know kind of

2694
01:37:40,870 --> 01:37:39,119
more of the consciousness aspect of this

2695
01:37:43,109 --> 01:37:40,880
if you're into you know kind of more of

2696
01:37:45,590 --> 01:37:43,119
the heady or academic sort of side of

2697
01:37:47,430 --> 01:37:45,600
this topic then liminal frames would be

2698
01:37:49,109 --> 01:37:47,440
for you and if you're really into the

2699
01:37:51,669 --> 01:37:49,119
community stuff and kind of positive

2700
01:37:53,990 --> 01:37:51,679
energy then calling all beings would be

2701
01:37:55,430 --> 01:37:54,000
uh your forte as well so two two

2702
01:37:56,470 --> 01:37:55,440
interest that i have that i fortunately

2703
01:37:57,990 --> 01:37:56,480
have the

2704
01:38:00,629 --> 01:37:58,000
ability to

2705
01:38:03,430 --> 01:38:00,639
to do in the in this space

2706
01:38:06,629 --> 01:38:03,440
so the uh liminal frames that's

2707
01:38:09,189 --> 01:38:06,639
p-h-r-a-m that's correct yeah

2708
01:38:11,669 --> 01:38:09,199
and how do you pick your topics and that

2709
01:38:13,990 --> 01:38:11,679
that's a great question so we uh we meet

2710
01:38:17,109 --> 01:38:14,000
in person in the off weeks where we are

2711
01:38:19,510 --> 01:38:17,119
not recording i see and we usually meet

2712
01:38:21,189 --> 01:38:19,520
over a beer or a coffee and we'll talk

2713
01:38:22,790 --> 01:38:21,199
for like three hours it's the beer

2714
01:38:24,310 --> 01:38:22,800
that'll do it it's the beer that'll do

2715
01:38:26,629 --> 01:38:24,320
it but what's funny about it martin is

2716
01:38:27,990 --> 01:38:26,639
like so we'll talk for like three hours

2717
01:38:29,830 --> 01:38:28,000
and we'll basically shut down the

2718
01:38:31,270 --> 01:38:29,840
establishment and you know we have to

2719
01:38:33,270 --> 01:38:31,280
literally leave because they're closing

2720
01:38:34,310 --> 01:38:33,280
the doors and it's at that point where

2721
01:38:35,750 --> 01:38:34,320
we're like what are we going to talk

2722
01:38:38,390 --> 01:38:35,760
about on the next show like we don't

2723
01:38:39,189 --> 01:38:38,400
talk about the show until the very end

2724
01:38:41,590 --> 01:38:39,199
um

2725
01:38:43,590 --> 01:38:41,600
but that's how i research my guest too

2726
01:38:45,750 --> 01:38:43,600
it's crazy it's just you just gotta let

2727
01:38:47,270 --> 01:38:45,760
it happen to you i think um

2728
01:38:49,830 --> 01:38:47,280
but we've had a wonderful time doing

2729
01:38:51,510 --> 01:38:49,840
that and uh we've changed the format a

2730
01:38:53,430 --> 01:38:51,520
little bit um

2731
01:38:54,629 --> 01:38:53,440
and right now our format is we basically

2732
01:38:57,109 --> 01:38:54,639
take like

2733
01:38:58,790 --> 01:38:57,119
a few clips a few audio clips and we'll

2734
01:38:59,830 --> 01:38:58,800
we'll play that audio and and then

2735
01:39:01,430 --> 01:38:59,840
discuss

2736
01:39:03,189 --> 01:39:01,440
you know whatever's whatever happens to

2737
01:39:04,550 --> 01:39:03,199
be in that in that clip so we'll we'll

2738
01:39:06,790 --> 01:39:04,560
pull things from different interviews

2739
01:39:08,870 --> 01:39:06,800
and and go over that material

2740
01:39:11,669 --> 01:39:08,880
and your panel of five on calling all

2741
01:39:14,070 --> 01:39:11,679
beings what do you discuss on

2742
01:39:16,390 --> 01:39:14,080
that in particular again more or less is

2743
01:39:18,470 --> 01:39:16,400
it is it about you said you had an

2744
01:39:20,870 --> 01:39:18,480
experience or as one of the people

2745
01:39:23,109 --> 01:39:20,880
involved is that does that something you

2746
01:39:25,750 --> 01:39:23,119
also explore and talk about

2747
01:39:28,070 --> 01:39:25,760
we do and we give her the space to kind

2748
01:39:31,189 --> 01:39:28,080
of ask the question from

2749
01:39:33,189 --> 01:39:31,199
from her own experience there uh so

2750
01:39:35,910 --> 01:39:33,199
um i think the the strength of our show

2751
01:39:38,070 --> 01:39:35,920
is the diversity of our of our panel um

2752
01:39:40,070 --> 01:39:38,080
it is challenging to host a show

2753
01:39:41,350 --> 01:39:40,080
uh in an hour an hour and a half with uh

2754
01:39:43,669 --> 01:39:41,360
when you have five people asking

2755
01:39:45,510 --> 01:39:43,679
questions but the the the benefit of

2756
01:39:46,950 --> 01:39:45,520
that is that um

2757
01:39:49,109 --> 01:39:46,960
each person really brings something

2758
01:39:51,910 --> 01:39:49,119
special to the conversation whether that

2759
01:39:54,149 --> 01:39:51,920
be a little dash of humor or something

2760
01:39:57,990 --> 01:39:54,159
that's you know really get you thinking

2761
01:40:00,229 --> 01:39:58,000
uh or you know something that is um

2762
01:40:02,070 --> 01:40:00,239
you know validating and nurturing and or

2763
01:40:05,189 --> 01:40:02,080
even kind of very data centric you know

2764
01:40:08,229 --> 01:40:05,199
so we have uh one of our panelists deb

2765
01:40:10,229 --> 01:40:08,239
uh has done a ton of work with documents

2766
01:40:11,590 --> 01:40:10,239
since she has a website called the ufo

2767
01:40:12,709 --> 01:40:11,600
connector

2768
01:40:14,470 --> 01:40:12,719
where she just

2769
01:40:16,709 --> 01:40:14,480
it's a wonderful resource for this

2770
01:40:18,629 --> 01:40:16,719
material but she comes at it from a kind

2771
01:40:20,229 --> 01:40:18,639
of research researcher's perspective so

2772
01:40:22,310 --> 01:40:20,239
you get all of these different voices

2773
01:40:23,590 --> 01:40:22,320
engaging with the guests

2774
01:40:25,030 --> 01:40:23,600
trying we do our best to try to make

2775
01:40:26,870 --> 01:40:25,040
them feel at home

2776
01:40:28,629 --> 01:40:26,880
martin we'd love to have you on the show

2777
01:40:30,629 --> 01:40:28,639
and uh and just to have a wonderful

2778
01:40:31,990 --> 01:40:30,639
conversation where we can you know

2779
01:40:34,070 --> 01:40:32,000
hopefully learn a little bit more about

2780
01:40:35,350 --> 01:40:34,080
what's going on uh in

2781
01:40:37,030 --> 01:40:35,360
in an area where there's just not that

2782
01:40:39,590 --> 01:40:37,040
much information right

2783
01:40:42,709 --> 01:40:39,600
yeah yeah there's a lot of speculation

2784
01:40:45,510 --> 01:40:42,719
and no information yes information and

2785
01:40:47,750 --> 01:40:45,520
unfortunately uh yeah and but i still

2786
01:40:48,950 --> 01:40:47,760
find it you know you mentioned how many

2787
01:40:52,629 --> 01:40:48,960
shows and how many years i've been doing

2788
01:40:54,629 --> 01:40:52,639
this i wouldn't be doing it unless i

2789
01:40:57,510 --> 01:40:54,639
you know i wouldn't be doing it for the

2790
01:40:59,830 --> 01:40:57,520
money because there is none so

2791
01:41:01,270 --> 01:40:59,840
it's about it's about the fascination

2792
01:41:05,189 --> 01:41:01,280
you know it's about

2793
01:41:07,590 --> 01:41:05,199
uh i personally think it's the biggest

2794
01:41:09,270 --> 01:41:07,600
topic that we could possibly

2795
01:41:12,149 --> 01:41:09,280
um you know ever

2796
01:41:14,070 --> 01:41:12,159
get an answer to if we ever do i

2797
01:41:16,629 --> 01:41:14,080
i don't have a lot of faith

2798
01:41:18,470 --> 01:41:16,639
in my lifetime that i'll actually know

2799
01:41:21,109 --> 01:41:18,480
what's going on but

2800
01:41:23,189 --> 01:41:21,119
uh but it's possible you know it's

2801
01:41:24,870 --> 01:41:23,199
possible i i do think you know one of

2802
01:41:27,669 --> 01:41:24,880
the things that the hearing that i

2803
01:41:30,229 --> 01:41:27,679
thought was kind of interesting was

2804
01:41:34,629 --> 01:41:30,239
that they i forget who it was that said

2805
01:41:37,350 --> 01:41:34,639
it um i can't remember but it was

2806
01:41:38,470 --> 01:41:37,360
basically along the lines that

2807
01:41:39,350 --> 01:41:38,480
we will

2808
01:41:40,870 --> 01:41:39,360
share

2809
01:41:43,830 --> 01:41:40,880
information

2810
01:41:46,390 --> 01:41:43,840
unless it's something that

2811
01:41:49,510 --> 01:41:46,400
of the methods on how

2812
01:41:52,390 --> 01:41:49,520
um on how we get this information

2813
01:41:54,229 --> 01:41:52,400
would have to be uh you know uh i forget

2814
01:41:57,590 --> 01:41:54,239
exactly what would have to be classified

2815
01:41:58,790 --> 01:41:57,600
or or something like that in other words

2816
01:42:01,350 --> 01:41:58,800
if they found out that their

2817
01:42:03,430 --> 01:42:01,360
extraterrestrial will never know i mean

2818
01:42:06,229 --> 01:42:03,440
i don't know what they was trying to say

2819
01:42:09,189 --> 01:42:06,239
exactly but uh if they said if we found

2820
01:42:12,790 --> 01:42:09,199
out this way or that way we can't reveal

2821
01:42:15,350 --> 01:42:12,800
how we resource these things so you know

2822
01:42:17,350 --> 01:42:15,360
so that wouldn't be known basically yeah

2823
01:42:18,550 --> 01:42:17,360
it's uh i mean we're all watching i

2824
01:42:20,629 --> 01:42:18,560
think with baited breath and what's

2825
01:42:22,470 --> 01:42:20,639
going to happen there um i'm i'm an

2826
01:42:25,510 --> 01:42:22,480
optimist i'm encouraged by the momentum

2827
01:42:28,229 --> 01:42:25,520
that we've seen in the last few years

2828
01:42:29,590 --> 01:42:28,239
um i do think we're going to get this

2829
01:42:30,629 --> 01:42:29,600
a little bit further than we've had it

2830
01:42:32,709 --> 01:42:30,639
before

2831
01:42:34,709 --> 01:42:32,719
um at the same time i i you know i do

2832
01:42:37,910 --> 01:42:34,719
think that we have to be realistic um

2833
01:42:39,109 --> 01:42:37,920
you know as you said we may not uh

2834
01:42:41,109 --> 01:42:39,119
you know we may not really get the

2835
01:42:42,550 --> 01:42:41,119
answers that we think we're going to get

2836
01:42:43,910 --> 01:42:42,560
and that might be okay i mean at the end

2837
01:42:45,750 --> 01:42:43,920
of the day i think we have to realize

2838
01:42:47,350 --> 01:42:45,760
that no matter what we learn

2839
01:42:49,430 --> 01:42:47,360
we're gonna have more questions and

2840
01:42:51,669 --> 01:42:49,440
that's okay you know so we need to be

2841
01:42:53,669 --> 01:42:51,679
comfortable with questions uh we're not

2842
01:42:55,510 --> 01:42:53,679
gonna get all of our answers and just be

2843
01:42:56,390 --> 01:42:55,520
done with it and then somehow reads some

2844
01:42:58,629 --> 01:42:56,400
kind of

2845
01:42:59,990 --> 01:42:58,639
informational nirvana you know it's not

2846
01:43:03,109 --> 01:43:00,000
it's not going to happen

2847
01:43:06,310 --> 01:43:03,119
uh right what was your take on uh

2848
01:43:07,990 --> 01:43:06,320
uh usdi moultrie's uh you know sort of

2849
01:43:09,189 --> 01:43:08,000
admission of his interest in science

2850
01:43:11,270 --> 01:43:09,199
fiction and

2851
01:43:13,430 --> 01:43:11,280
you know did you think how do you like

2852
01:43:15,990 --> 01:43:13,440
that personally i i personally thought

2853
01:43:18,790 --> 01:43:16,000
they were kind of belittling him but

2854
01:43:20,709 --> 01:43:18,800
leslie kane when she was on the show she

2855
01:43:22,950 --> 01:43:20,719
said that uh you know they're more

2856
01:43:24,709 --> 01:43:22,960
humanizing it and i don't think they i

2857
01:43:26,709 --> 01:43:24,719
think she's probably right i don't think

2858
01:43:29,189 --> 01:43:26,719
they were uh you know what i'm gonna

2859
01:43:31,350 --> 01:43:29,199
open the lines i we only have

2860
01:43:33,189 --> 01:43:31,360
uh about 10 minutes we might be able to

2861
01:43:35,030 --> 01:43:33,199
take one call or two

2862
01:43:38,070 --> 01:43:35,040
that phone number is up on the screen

2863
01:43:41,109 --> 01:43:39,510
is standing by

2864
01:43:43,350 --> 01:43:41,119
so if you have a question for our guest

2865
01:43:45,030 --> 01:43:43,360
tonight um like i said we can take one

2866
01:43:47,030 --> 01:43:45,040
or two calls it seems like there's been

2867
01:43:49,830 --> 01:43:47,040
some good activity in the

2868
01:43:51,030 --> 01:43:49,840
in the chat uh tonight as far as people

2869
01:43:52,390 --> 01:43:51,040
wanting to know

2870
01:43:53,910 --> 01:43:52,400
um thanks so

2871
01:43:56,149 --> 01:43:53,920
again that number is up on the screen

2872
01:43:58,870 --> 01:43:56,159
eight five five four seven two five four

2873
01:43:59,990 --> 01:43:58,880
eight three and bill is waiting to take

2874
01:44:01,270 --> 01:44:00,000
your call

2875
01:44:04,470 --> 01:44:01,280
um

2876
01:44:06,790 --> 01:44:04,480
so i agree martin on that uh on your and

2877
01:44:08,709 --> 01:44:06,800
on leslie's sort of comment though i i

2878
01:44:10,310 --> 01:44:08,719
felt that to be

2879
01:44:13,109 --> 01:44:10,320
like you can think about that that

2880
01:44:15,590 --> 01:44:13,119
situation with those military men and uh

2881
01:44:17,750 --> 01:44:15,600
and that that particular setting and it

2882
01:44:19,270 --> 01:44:17,760
feels so very official and stuffy and

2883
01:44:22,229 --> 01:44:19,280
the fact that he was

2884
01:44:23,990 --> 01:44:22,239
you know really kind of uh

2885
01:44:25,990 --> 01:44:24,000
being open about an interest a hobby

2886
01:44:28,550 --> 01:44:26,000
that he has that some people might find

2887
01:44:30,550 --> 01:44:28,560
weird for a serious military person i

2888
01:44:31,510 --> 01:44:30,560
thought that was really great

2889
01:44:33,510 --> 01:44:31,520
yeah

2890
01:44:34,629 --> 01:44:33,520
no it is if you if you think about a lot

2891
01:44:36,709 --> 01:44:34,639
of people

2892
01:44:39,350 --> 01:44:36,719
um you know i had someone from the cia

2893
01:44:42,149 --> 01:44:39,360
that was on a lot of people from the

2894
01:44:44,229 --> 01:44:42,159
cia are interested in the topic that

2895
01:44:46,470 --> 01:44:44,239
doesn't mean that they're wacko right i

2896
01:44:49,350 --> 01:44:46,480
mean it's it's an it's a mystery it's a

2897
01:44:51,270 --> 01:44:49,360
it's it's something and i've mentioned

2898
01:44:52,709 --> 01:44:51,280
on this show before you know i

2899
01:45:26,229 --> 01:44:52,719
i

2900
01:45:28,149 --> 01:45:26,239
answers here and um yes where there may

2901
01:45:30,149 --> 01:45:28,159
be situations where we can't

2902
01:45:31,669 --> 01:45:30,159
reveal everything and and i hope that

2903
01:45:33,030 --> 01:45:31,679
those are there are good reasons for

2904
01:45:34,950 --> 01:45:33,040
that

2905
01:45:36,790 --> 01:45:34,960
right right and uh

2906
01:45:38,070 --> 01:45:36,800
i'm trying to think about let's see i

2907
01:45:39,590 --> 01:45:38,080
had john

2908
01:45:42,149 --> 01:45:39,600
ramirez

2909
01:45:44,870 --> 01:45:42,159
from the retired from the cia and he

2910
01:45:47,910 --> 01:45:44,880
basically said that the

2911
01:45:49,030 --> 01:45:47,920
people that he knew in his office in the

2912
01:45:50,470 --> 01:45:49,040
cia

2913
01:45:53,270 --> 01:45:50,480
were drawn

2914
01:45:56,070 --> 01:45:53,280
they were i was always interested in the

2915
01:45:58,229 --> 01:45:56,080
ufo topic but were drawn to be into this

2916
01:46:00,790 --> 01:45:58,239
in the cia i've heard which i think is

2917
01:46:02,070 --> 01:46:00,800
another another really uh funny

2918
01:46:05,109 --> 01:46:02,080
characteristic

2919
01:46:08,149 --> 01:46:05,119
so uh last call for calls i'll take down

2920
01:46:10,629 --> 01:46:08,159
the sign coming up uh in just about five

2921
01:46:11,669 --> 01:46:10,639
minutes so we only have time for a call

2922
01:46:13,590 --> 01:46:11,679
or two

2923
01:46:15,430 --> 01:46:13,600
the numbers eight five five four seven

2924
01:46:17,750 --> 01:46:15,440
two five four eight three i thought for

2925
01:46:19,270 --> 01:46:17,760
sure we'd get some people calling it

2926
01:46:21,350 --> 01:46:19,280
it's okay i see a lot of folks a lot of

2927
01:46:22,790 --> 01:46:21,360
names that i'm familiar with in uh in

2928
01:46:24,830 --> 01:46:22,800
the social space

2929
01:46:27,590 --> 01:46:24,840
um i do see a question there about bob

2930
01:46:29,109 --> 01:46:27,600
lazar oh do you like that one well every

2931
01:46:31,669 --> 01:46:29,119
time i have potato you get that one

2932
01:46:34,629 --> 01:46:31,679
every episode that's a hot potato

2933
01:46:37,109 --> 01:46:34,639
uh yeah i get i get uh wet i think we're

2934
01:46:38,550 --> 01:46:37,119
saved by the belt looks like we got uh

2935
01:46:40,950 --> 01:46:38,560
we have jeff

2936
01:46:43,750 --> 01:46:40,960
uh let me add this to the stream we have

2937
01:46:46,629 --> 01:46:43,760
jeff calling from indiana jeff you are

2938
01:46:48,070 --> 01:46:46,639
live and on the air welcome to the show

2939
01:46:50,149 --> 01:46:48,080
thank you very much uh good evening

2940
01:46:51,830 --> 01:46:50,159
martin good evening

2941
01:46:54,070 --> 01:46:51,840
and uh

2942
01:46:56,310 --> 01:46:54,080
i uh i just wanted to say that i thought

2943
01:47:01,910 --> 01:46:58,070
the letters

2944
01:47:03,030 --> 01:47:01,920
first uh report to the congress

2945
01:47:04,550 --> 01:47:03,040
and the

2946
01:47:06,709 --> 01:47:04,560
meeting that they had the other day it

2947
01:47:09,030 --> 01:47:06,719
was just a bunch of nothing

2948
01:47:11,750 --> 01:47:09,040
and the fact that those fellows

2949
01:47:13,430 --> 01:47:11,760
knew nothing of the moundstrom

2950
01:47:16,229 --> 01:47:13,440
where they shut our nuclear missiles

2951
01:47:17,750 --> 01:47:16,239
down was just absolutely

2952
01:47:19,990 --> 01:47:17,760
yeah we did we actually talked about

2953
01:47:22,310 --> 01:47:20,000
that earlier yes

2954
01:47:25,590 --> 01:47:22,320
you may be just joining the show uh but

2955
01:47:27,109 --> 01:47:25,600
yeah we talked about that earlier

2956
01:47:29,830 --> 01:47:27,119
i listened to it i was i was seconding

2957
01:47:32,149 --> 01:47:29,840
what you said there it was just oh i see

2958
01:47:33,830 --> 01:47:32,159
if they don't think that was uh

2959
01:47:37,030 --> 01:47:33,840
they should know that when

2960
01:47:39,109 --> 01:47:37,040
that's a matter of national security

2961
01:47:40,870 --> 01:47:39,119
uh that's pathetic that these guys i

2962
01:47:42,390 --> 01:47:40,880
don't believe those guys for one thing

2963
01:47:44,310 --> 01:47:42,400
for what they that they said that they

2964
01:47:46,470 --> 01:47:44,320
never heard that before

2965
01:47:47,750 --> 01:47:46,480
you know i just don't believe it

2966
01:47:49,590 --> 01:47:47,760
and uh

2967
01:47:51,270 --> 01:47:49,600
i i just they're they're still

2968
01:47:54,070 --> 01:47:51,280
stonewalling

2969
01:47:55,990 --> 01:47:54,080
they're not going to tell us

2970
01:47:57,830 --> 01:47:56,000
nothing and and probably the only reason

2971
01:47:59,510 --> 01:47:57,840
they've come this far is i believe the

2972
01:48:01,669 --> 01:47:59,520
pilots

2973
01:48:03,590 --> 01:48:01,679
uh don't want to operate in an unsafe

2974
01:48:05,669 --> 01:48:03,600
atmosphere around their ships they're

2975
01:48:07,189 --> 01:48:05,679
afraid of having collisions

2976
01:48:09,109 --> 01:48:07,199
and i think they were forced more or

2977
01:48:11,030 --> 01:48:09,119
less you know and then along with lou

2978
01:48:14,229 --> 01:48:11,040
d'alessandros would he

2979
01:48:16,629 --> 01:48:14,239
he decided to come out uh but uh

2980
01:48:18,310 --> 01:48:16,639
i i i don't know that was almost too

2981
01:48:19,750 --> 01:48:18,320
good to be true this is almost too good

2982
01:48:20,870 --> 01:48:19,760
to be true

2983
01:48:22,629 --> 01:48:20,880
and we're going oh we're going to get

2984
01:48:24,709 --> 01:48:22,639
disclosure

2985
01:48:27,990 --> 01:48:24,719
but guess what we really aren't getting

2986
01:48:30,310 --> 01:48:28,000
a whole lot of information yet you know

2987
01:48:30,320 --> 01:48:34,550
i've been researching this a long time

2988
01:48:38,229 --> 01:48:35,990
you know you want to know what these

2989
01:48:40,310 --> 01:48:38,239
beings are

2990
01:48:43,109 --> 01:48:40,320
uh dr edgar mitchell said he

2991
01:48:44,229 --> 01:48:43,119
he correlated directly to the bible

2992
01:48:50,149 --> 01:48:44,239
now

2993
01:48:51,910 --> 01:48:50,159
i kind of gotta agree with him and in my

2994
01:48:53,270 --> 01:48:51,920
opinion i believe if you want to think

2995
01:48:54,870 --> 01:48:53,280
of anything

2996
01:48:56,790 --> 01:48:54,880
if you're pertaining to the bible what

2997
01:48:58,390 --> 01:48:56,800
these things would be they are the

2998
01:49:00,310 --> 01:48:58,400
fallen angels

2999
01:49:02,790 --> 01:49:00,320
and supposedly according to the bible

3000
01:49:04,950 --> 01:49:02,800
god cast

3001
01:49:07,030 --> 01:49:04,960
lucifer and a third of the angels it was

3002
01:49:09,830 --> 01:49:07,040
his followers down onto the earth and

3003
01:49:13,750 --> 01:49:09,840
this is now his domain

3004
01:49:20,709 --> 01:49:16,470
it's a it's a uh it's a lottery or it's

3005
01:49:26,310 --> 01:49:23,109
he who ends up with the most souls wins

3006
01:49:28,790 --> 01:49:26,320
either lucifer or or god the creator

3007
01:49:31,030 --> 01:49:28,800
and i think we're in the middle

3008
01:49:32,390 --> 01:49:31,040
but uh this is supposedly lucifer's

3009
01:49:35,030 --> 01:49:32,400
domain

3010
01:49:37,030 --> 01:49:35,040
and he's not a human none of the angels

3011
01:49:37,830 --> 01:49:37,040
were ever human

3012
01:49:40,950 --> 01:49:37,840
uh

3013
01:49:42,709 --> 01:49:40,960
jeff do you have a question for our

3014
01:49:43,910 --> 01:49:42,719
guest

3015
01:49:45,350 --> 01:49:43,920
uh

3016
01:49:48,229 --> 01:49:45,360
well you know he was elaborating while

3017
01:49:50,310 --> 01:49:48,239
ago as being a great being raised in a

3018
01:49:52,390 --> 01:49:50,320
religious setting

3019
01:49:54,390 --> 01:49:52,400
and uh

3020
01:49:56,470 --> 01:49:54,400
i was kind of

3021
01:49:58,629 --> 01:49:56,480
and he drifted off of that you know and

3022
01:50:02,310 --> 01:49:58,639
and i i was uh

3023
01:50:04,550 --> 01:50:02,320
i was kind of giving uh

3024
01:50:05,750 --> 01:50:04,560
i guess i guess i guess i really don't

3025
01:50:07,030 --> 01:50:05,760
you know have a

3026
01:50:08,629 --> 01:50:07,040
question for him i've listened to him

3027
01:50:11,430 --> 01:50:08,639
the whole show and

3028
01:50:12,790 --> 01:50:11,440
and uh he seems very uh

3029
01:50:14,470 --> 01:50:12,800
uh

3030
01:50:16,550 --> 01:50:14,480
interested in this subject i'm an

3031
01:50:18,550 --> 01:50:16,560
experiencer and you know i'll tell you

3032
01:50:19,589 --> 01:50:18,560
what you guys need

3033
01:50:25,030 --> 01:50:19,599
you need

3034
01:50:27,350 --> 01:50:25,040
wife did in broad daylight

3035
01:50:29,189 --> 01:50:27,360
and it went on for quite a while

3036
01:50:31,830 --> 01:50:29,199
and we got about as good a look at these

3037
01:50:33,270 --> 01:50:31,840
machines they are machines

3038
01:50:36,870 --> 01:50:33,280
as you can get

3039
01:50:39,030 --> 01:50:36,880
and when you once you see it you will be

3040
01:50:41,270 --> 01:50:39,040
you will really be

3041
01:50:43,350 --> 01:50:41,280
uh an investigator after that i mean you

3042
01:50:44,390 --> 01:50:43,360
will be you when you know what you see

3043
01:50:45,750 --> 01:50:44,400
like you said

3044
01:50:49,589 --> 01:50:45,760
um

3045
01:50:50,709 --> 01:50:49,599
well we are running out of time just to

3046
01:50:53,109 --> 01:50:50,719
let you know

3047
01:50:57,109 --> 01:50:53,119
oh okay um

3048
01:51:02,149 --> 01:50:59,350
i just don't know

3049
01:51:03,669 --> 01:51:02,159
no i just if

3050
01:51:06,310 --> 01:51:03,679
what would be the pro how could you

3051
01:51:08,149 --> 01:51:06,320
pressure

3052
01:51:09,750 --> 01:51:08,159
congress anymore

3053
01:51:12,310 --> 01:51:09,760
to uh

3054
01:51:14,390 --> 01:51:12,320
to to make these guys come through and

3055
01:51:15,910 --> 01:51:14,400
and tell us the pentagon to tell us

3056
01:51:17,990 --> 01:51:15,920
what's going on you know what could what

3057
01:51:19,750 --> 01:51:18,000
do you think could be done

3058
01:51:21,750 --> 01:51:19,760
because we're not going to get it i can

3059
01:51:23,750 --> 01:51:21,760
tell you right now thanks mark for

3060
01:51:25,350 --> 01:51:23,760
having me sorry all right

3061
01:51:27,830 --> 01:51:25,360
sure thank you

3062
01:51:30,550 --> 01:51:27,840
yeah great question and jeff we have to

3063
01:51:32,790 --> 01:51:30,560
we have less than two minutes okay yeah

3064
01:51:34,709 --> 01:51:32,800
let's let's hit it quick then so jeff uh

3065
01:51:36,790 --> 01:51:34,719
i think it's great the uh passion that

3066
01:51:38,390 --> 01:51:36,800
you have for the topic and and then i

3067
01:51:40,070 --> 01:51:38,400
would love to you know hear about your

3068
01:51:41,189 --> 01:51:40,080
experience it sounds very you know

3069
01:51:42,229 --> 01:51:41,199
impressive

3070
01:51:44,310 --> 01:51:42,239
um

3071
01:51:46,070 --> 01:51:44,320
you know i think i agree with him that

3072
01:51:48,229 --> 01:51:46,080
the the pilots are are incredibly

3073
01:51:49,910 --> 01:51:48,239
compelling and i think that the the the

3074
01:51:51,830 --> 01:51:49,920
congress members

3075
01:51:53,030 --> 01:51:51,840
uh seem to be aware of that as well in

3076
01:51:56,070 --> 01:51:53,040
fact many of them have heard that

3077
01:51:58,149 --> 01:51:56,080
testimony uh in in private briefing so i

3078
01:52:00,629 --> 01:51:58,159
i would hope that we will get some of

3079
01:52:03,270 --> 01:52:00,639
these pilots uh behind the microphone in

3080
01:52:05,589 --> 01:52:03,280
a public fashion in future hearings i'm

3081
01:52:06,950 --> 01:52:05,599
hearing a lot about uh

3082
01:52:08,870 --> 01:52:06,960
hearings that will continue to take

3083
01:52:11,030 --> 01:52:08,880
place i think this is going to be a

3084
01:52:12,629 --> 01:52:11,040
pretty big year for the the the subject

3085
01:52:14,229 --> 01:52:12,639
there's a lot happening

3086
01:52:15,669 --> 01:52:14,239
uh i know people hear this all the time

3087
01:52:17,910 --> 01:52:15,679
but there is quite a lot happening

3088
01:52:18,790 --> 01:52:17,920
behind the scenes uh in pushing this

3089
01:52:20,390 --> 01:52:18,800
forward

3090
01:52:22,390 --> 01:52:20,400
at least for the people that i traffic

3091
01:52:23,990 --> 01:52:22,400
with and and the people that you know

3092
01:52:25,830 --> 01:52:24,000
they are connected to i know that

3093
01:52:27,990 --> 01:52:25,840
there's a lot taking place so

3094
01:52:30,709 --> 01:52:28,000
again i'm an optimist i think that uh

3095
01:52:33,030 --> 01:52:30,719
it's hard to put this sort of uh

3096
01:52:34,470 --> 01:52:33,040
toothpaste back in the tube i think uh

3097
01:52:36,629 --> 01:52:34,480
we're gonna continue to see momentum

3098
01:52:39,109 --> 01:52:36,639
here and you know if with any luck we'll

3099
01:52:41,910 --> 01:52:39,119
all be brushing our teeth with it uh

3100
01:52:43,830 --> 01:52:41,920
eventually so yeah hey nathan it's been

3101
01:52:45,589 --> 01:52:43,840
really a real pleasure talking to you it

3102
01:52:47,589 --> 01:52:45,599
was great i'm glad i took the chance on

3103
01:52:49,510 --> 01:52:47,599
a one namer

3104
01:52:51,350 --> 01:52:49,520
thank you martin and i look forward to

3105
01:52:52,950 --> 01:52:51,360
talking with you in the future all right

3106
01:52:55,270 --> 01:52:52,960
you take care and yeah sure i'll be on

3107
01:52:57,030 --> 01:52:55,280
your show excellent all right take care

3108
01:52:58,790 --> 01:52:57,040
bye

3109
01:53:00,629 --> 01:52:58,800
all right that's it for our show tonight

3110
01:53:03,030 --> 01:53:00,639
thank you everyone very much and we'll

3111
01:53:06,149 --> 01:53:03,040
be back next week with philip mantle and

3112
01:53:09,030 --> 01:53:06,159
charles lear in that order both talking

3113
01:53:10,629 --> 01:53:09,040
about uh their new books and a lot more

3114
01:53:12,170 --> 01:53:10,639
again thank you and remember to keep

3115
01:53:23,210 --> 01:53:12,180
your eyes to the sky